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Topic: The Old Testament Replies: 4 posts
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prophet777
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« on: July 22, 2010, 09:40:55 AM »

For countless ages, the only book of history available to Christians and Jews was the Old Testament. When someone wanted to know what happened in the past, they would go back and study the Old Testament to find the answer. New theories about history literally lived and died by their conformance to what the Old Testament taught. Then the discrepancies began to be noticed.

Once mankind began to study the Old Testament in detail, comparing the various passages which referred to the same topic in order to obtain as much detail as possible, they began to notice conflicting accounts of many matters as well as other problems. For instance, in the eleventh century, it was noticed that the list of Edomite kings in Genesis 36 names kings who lived long after Moses was dead Then people began to notice such statements as "to this day" something is true, which implies that the author was looking back at these matters through history and has seen that they have endured.

After this, it was noticed that in the beginning verses of the OT manuscripts, Deuteronomy says: "These are the words that Moses spoke to the children of Israel across the Jordan...." They noticed that the words "across the Jordan" refers to people who are on the opposite side of the Jordan river to the author. But the alleged author, Moses himself, was never supposed to have been in Israel in his life.

It was also noticed that Moses speaks in detail in Deuteronomy 34:5-10 about how he died and where he was buried. Moses also calls himself the most humble man on earth in Numbers 12:3 (would the most humble man on earth call himself the most humble man on earth?). In Deuteronomy 34:10 we read "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses." This also implies that the author was looking back at Moses through history a long time after Moses's death. Now the flood gates were opened and countless other discrepancies began to show up.

In the beginning, it was claimed that Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Five "books of Moses") and anyone contesting this fact would be severely punished or worse. However, when these matters started to become well known, it became necessary to find explanations. For example, the first explanation presented for the verses referring to the death of Moses was that Moses  had written his books, but that later prophets, as well as "inspired" scribes (who could also be considered prophets), had later on added on a couple of lines here and there. In this manner the text remained 100% the "inspiration" of God. This explanation, however, did not stand up to scrutiny because the style and literary characteristics of the verses are the same throughout. For instance, the verses which describe the death and burial of Moses exhibit the same literary characteristics as the verses before and after them.

After this, the trend became to explain any and all discrepancies through abstraction and elaborate interpretations, or through the introduction of additional narrative details that did not appear in the biblical text. Around this time, a startling new discovery was made. It was noticed that the stories in the five books of Moses were made up of doublets. A doublet is a case of one story being told twice. Even in the English translation of the Bible, the doublets are noticeable. These doublets have been masterfully intertwined so that they become one narrative.

For example, there are doublets of the creation of the world, the covenant between God and Abraham, the naming of Isaac, Abraham's claim that his wife Sarah was his sister, the story of Jacob's journey to Mesopotamia, Jacob's revelation at Beth-El,...etc. In many cases these doublets actually contradict one another. The apologists once again jumped up with an explanation in hand. They claimed that the doublets were complementary and not contradictory. It was claimed that they came to teach us a lesson by their "apparent" contradiction. However, this claim did not hold water for long. The reason is that not long after, it was discovered that when the doublets were separated into two separate accounts, each account was almost always consistent about the name of the deity that it used. One would always refer to God as Yahweh/Jehovah. This document was called "J." The other always referred to Him as Elohiym(Gods). It was called "E." There were various other literary characteristics which were then found to be common to one group or the other. It became obvious that someone had taken two separate accounts of the ministry of Moses , cut them up, and then woven them together quite masterfully so that their actions would not be discovered until countless centuries later.

Once this startling discovery was made, the Old Testament was once again placed under the scrutiny of scholars and it was discovered that the Pentateuch was not made up of two major source documents but FOUR. It was discovered that some stories were not only doublets, but triplets. Additional literary characteristics were identified for these documents. The third source was called P (for Priestly), and the fourth D (for Deuteronomy). In the end it was concluded that the first four "books of Moses" were the result of the merging of three separate accounts which were called J, E, and P, and the book of Deuteronomy was found to be a separate account which was called D. The person (or persons) who collected and intertwined these sources was called "The Redactor."

P7
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 10:30:15 AM »

Greetings

       Is the I questioning the truth of the story/narrative of the Old Testament because of doubts about who it was written by ?


                   One Love
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Jah Live
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 12:46:03 PM »

And what would be wrong with that? I and I know better than most that the author of a book can have a great impact on the truth of a text. That is the case with any and all books, the Bible included.

That is not to say though that the texts in the Bible don't still contain fundamental truths. The historical validity of the texts can be rightly questioned, but I and I don't really read it for that anymore. What I and I look for in the Bible is truths about the nature of life and the Almighty, and those can be found in abundance in the stories contained in the Bible, whether the stories themselves are accurate or not.

Blessed love.
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JAHwalkwidme
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 12:22:44 AM »

Greetings Prophet

Give thanks for this, still.

I have read about this before, but not in this detail.  Could you please provide some references for my own research?

Jah bless
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 02:08:26 AM »

Greetings Nazarite I.
I agree with the facts that Prophet has posted about the OT being a compilation.I question is does that invalidate what is being told.If 3 people see an event happen each has their own perspective as to what occurred,if i hear all 3 versions maybe I have a better overstanding of the event.

 One Love
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Jah Live
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