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Rasta Forum Archives => Rasta Forum Archives 2008 => Topic started by: Ras Adam on July 29, 2007, 04:43:12 PM

Title: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Adam on July 29, 2007, 04:43:12 PM
Greeting Blessed Family, Idren of Selassie I.

I&I have observed that some on dis forum including Human I and I-self,   nah believe inna Jesus as the Messiah.
I&I nah know how the others dem who nah believe in Jesus deal wit this,   but my faith could be characterized as Messianic Judaism. And Haile Selassie I is JAH ALMIGHTY and CHRIST/Messiah in ONE person.

I wondered how many in dis forum, has non-christian beliefs?, and how you others (non-christian ras) deal wit all dis? How do you speak fi dis belief?

And then Iman read an Haile Selassie I interview, where He glorify Jesus. Me nah overstand dat, so thanks fi guiding, if you have a clue.

Let me state that i'm not interested in being convinced that christianity is the "right way," so if you are a christian missionary, please don't write pieces from the new testament that says I'm wrong in I faith, or writing "you cyaan be ras without Jesus," because,  I&I nah care about dat statement (and statements alike) generally because mi nah believe it.

Ites and Blessings,
Ras Adam
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: EmpressE on July 29, 2007, 05:06:18 PM
Bless brethren in JAH,

H.I.M Selassie I, did point IandI to Yashua (Jesus) to follow his teachings, in the Bible, Yashua taught many parables that can account and relate to so many problems IandI face in this world today. Being as humble as Selassie I was, of course he pointed out to follow a man of great integrity in our history, just like he is.

The way the I looks at it, Yashua was just apart of Christ, many rastas do not call Christ by "Jesus" because we do not follow Yashua alone. The best way IandI has heard it explained to me and as hard as it is to grasp sometime, "Christ" is larger title then one man. JAH, Yashua, Haile Selassie I. IandI think that Yashua was there to lead people till he died, and IandI believe JAH sent Selassie I to continue his works on a journey to Zion. Thats how IandI few "Christ" as JAH in two people at two different times, IandI think rastas follow Selassie I more because he kind of wrapped teachings up in a way if that makes any sense?

IandI still learning every day, and this comes with much reading and meditation to I, anyways. I not very good at explaining things, even though I grasp it myself but thats something I work on with JAH.
I pray this will help atleast a bit and open a new way for your soul to see clearly.

Bless


Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 29, 2007, 06:46:24 PM
To declare that one does not believe in Jesus Christ is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION of the WORDS of the Emperor. Until any I's can reconcile themselves with this FACT, they should be aware that their speech in that regard is detrimental to the Rastafari Movement, And only after this is acknowledged and desisted from will I attempt to explain more fully the reasoning's of His Majesty.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: sistahvee on July 29, 2007, 07:49:43 PM
Bless Up Ras Adam

That's a 'BIG' question the I has asked and one that often brings forth a lot of debate and even hostility Ilieve it or not.  In the case of InI, the 'JESUS' subject started to invade InI's mind very early.  InI grew up with a church eight feet away from InI's bedroom in the yard of InI's home where InI's Grams (Grandmother) was the leader, known as 'Mother' and who had received much teaching in the 'mysteries'.  So InI was bombarded with 'JESUS' topics from an early age.  InI's questioning also began very early as well.  Then as InI got older and wiser and able to do InI's own Research in libraries things started falling into place for InI.  Around the same time Ini started having a facination with RasTafari. 

InI started to learn about Great African Scholars like Yosef Ben-Jochannan and Ivan van Sertimer and InI was hooked on knowledge and learning all there was to learn about the Blackman and his orgins.  Hence the entrance of InI's Jesus Project.  This is where InI searched out Anything and Everything ever written about the man called Jesus.  When InI learned that, "IN the fifth century, women in Europe were dying because doctors there did not know how to perform caesarean sections. The European doctors had to turn to their African counterparts to learn the proper method." “They didn’t know [about] antiseptic,” he( van Sertimer) said of doctors in Europe at the time.  And that, "Eventually, European doctors visited African practitioners to see where they were going wrong. “They found that Africans washed their hands in palm wine,” said the anthropologist. “Palm wine was antiseptic.” Ancient Africans also developed anaesthetics, a vaccine for small pox and medicine for hypertension, and could treat diarrhoea and psychotic disorders."  Well Iyah, InI started questioning EXACTLY WHAT DID THEY KNOW about this man called Christ and HOW MUCH of what they said could be Ilieved.  InI learned that, “The most advanced astronomical observatory found dates back to 300 years BC” “There were seven stones pointing at seven stars.” The ancients saw that the number seven featured prominently in creation, he said, and so concluded that the number was somehow important to God. “God seemed to express himself in sevens,” said Van Sertima. “There are seven parts of the eye, seven layers of skin, seven holes in the body. “Seven was significant to the Africans and the Egyptians. Jesus knew that – he grew up in Egypt. Remember, ‘Out of Egypt I called My Son’?
Then InI learned from much studies that indeed Jesus was not ‘Jesus Christ’, but rather He was Jesus, the Christ, or ‘Krist’ [which], in Egyptian, means ‘anointed one’.

 
"All faith is FALSE, all faith is TRUE
TRUTH is the shattered mirrors strewn
In myriad bits; while each BELIEVES
his LITTLE BIT the whole to own"   
(From: “The Kasidah of Haji Abu el-Yezdi”; as translated by Sir Richard F. Burton)

So InI started to read up and learn about the Great Aristotle .  InI found that Aristotle surmised that philosophy first arose in Egypt because the priesthood there had leisure. With the geographical correctness of this statement we are not concerned, but Aristotle’s reasons for making it are significant. In the first place he lays down one of the conditions necessary to philosophic specification. The Egyptian priesthood, he tells us, had leisure. Philosophy requires time—time to wonder and meditate and make our guess about the inner constitution of the world.  InI found that he was indeed a very Wise man if indeed he did exist.  It turned out that "Freedom to think to Egypt and other Nile Valley nations had the climate of peace which Greece seldom experienced by virtue of the wars the Greeks engaged in during the period of so-called Greek Philosophy. Greek life was nothing but TRAGIC from Thales to Aristotle: the “philosopher.”At this point it is necessary to note that the first “Greek Philosopher,” Thales [ca. 600 B.C.], existence is questionable. We need not labor on the proof, as all of the Greek and other European chroniclers of antiquity have agreed his origin, as existence, is doubtful; so as most of the others that preceded Sokrates. Throughout Professor James’ Stolen Legacy this is clearly stated and documented."

InI set out to read and Overstand so critical a scholarly work... It became obvious that "We must, if we are to understand “African Roots of Western Civilization”!  Then InI learned of     Isis’ IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, at least 4100 years before Mary’s [which was less than 1981 years ago], deals with a very deep philosophical and theosophical concept in teachings that originated in the Grand Lodge of Luxor’s MYSTERIES SYSTEM. The text reads that after Osiris’ CRUCIFIXION, DEATH and BURIAL he “AROSE ON The THIRD DAY” and “BECAME THE RULER OF THE DEAD” [Godfrey Higgins’ ANACALYPSIS, Vol. II, p. 122]. During this period Isis, the mother of Horus, and her sister Nephthys, guarded the body of Osiris [Veronica Ions’ EGYPTIAN MYTHOLOGY, p. 133]. The philosophical dimension in this episode comes as Isis began to restore Osiris back to life by the powers given her by Thoth [J. Gwyn Griffith’s The Origins of Osiris, p. 4], the moment of the “CONCEPTION OF HORUS”; AND THUS The Holy of Sacred Scripture from the OSIRIAN DRAMA where Osiris states:
 
Your sister comes to you, joyous through her love for you. You have her placed upon your phallus. Your sperm enters her, so that she is like Sothis. It is Horus-Sopd who comes out of you as Horus who is also Sothis. You have become a glorious spirit through him in his name Djenderowbarque. He saves you in his name of Horus-the-son-who-saves-his father.   

InI paid extra attention to the source of the FATHER, SON and HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT basic philosophical concept adopted in the theology of the Judaeo-Christian Religion for the god JESUS-the Christ.
Further assessments on the Judaeo-Christian philosophical and theosophical teachings about the “IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY” and the “VIRGIN BIRTH OF JESUS,” or any of the other “FIFTEEN CRUCIFIED SAVIOURS” [Kersey Braves’ The Sixteen Crucified Saviors], took InI on a journey to Overstand the continuation will only created more questions  about “RESURRECTION, IMMORTALITY” and “DEIFICATION,” etc, already solved in the [Book Of The Dead and Papyrus of Ani] of the African Mysteries System.
The earliest gods and messiahs on all the continents were black. Research has yielded an impressive amount of material on the subject... The Messiahs, some of whom lived many centuries before Christ, had lives which so closely paralleled that of Christ that it seems most likely that the story of the latter was adapted from them. Moreover, the word Christ comes from the Indian, Krishna or Chrisna, which means "The Black One."

InI have also come to realize in InI's studies that Jesus was and still is many things to many people. "To Christians he is a part of the Godhead, the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the Word made flesh, the messiah of Jewish expectations. Hence, through his trials, sufferings, temptations, death and resurrection, He provides for the remission of sins, redemption and life eternal for those who follow his teachings and accept him as their personal saviour." To InI, JESUS IS ONE of the world's 16 crucified saviors -- the last of them, InI Ilieve - whose lives fit an almost identical pattern from the time of Horus in 4100 B.C. (according to the most ancient beliefs, he was the first crucified saviour) to the time of Judas Christas (Christ the anointed) in the pre-Christian era. "In essence, the life that Jesus purportedly led, the activities in which he engaged, his teachings, his trials and sufferings and eventual death and resurrection, are identical to those of Horus and Osiris (two ancient Egyptian gods) and the other 14 crucified saviours. Now Iyah, though InI am aware that this statement is potentially shocking to the mass of Ilievers, RasTafarians certainly, IT is nevertheless common knowledge to scholars.
So, to InI and many who study dillegiently, Jesus and the Ilief system that HE represents are thus a reappearance of one of..." the most beautiful ideas of the ancient black Africans of Ta-Merry - now called Egypt - which represented the eternal Father by the ever- coming Son, as in the Child Horus. This was the child of a mother who was the eternal virgin. The doctrines of the Incarnation, i.e., the word made flesh: the virgin birth, the resurrection, the Father-God who is identical to his own son and other doctrines..." (Ilieved to be specifically Christian) were Egyptian long before there was even the Icept of Adam and Eve, Judaism, Christianity and Islam and all the others.
Posted on: July 29, 2007, 08:48:55 pm
InI also learned that one must be able to back-up one's opinions and/or views when making such STRONG statement.  Hence InI will direct the I to  the Eschatology of the Egyptians wher e there is found a TRINITY and a UNITY, and the Egyptians truly Ilieved in punishment as well as everlasting happiness. "Not surprisingly, then, the doctrine of everlasting life and the belief in the resurrection of the "Spiritual Body" are, according to Dr. Albert Churchward (author of Signs and Symbols of Primordial Man, Origins of Freemasonry, The Origin And Evolution of Religion, The Origin And Evolution of The Human Race, etc.) "the brightest and most prominent features of the Egyptian religion, and this we find was their belief before the time of the first king of the first dynasty." The general teachings and cosmological world view of the Egyptians eventually filtered down and provided the foundation for later so-called 'Western Religions,' i.e., Judaism, Christianity and Islam. This point is thoroughly documented by the brilliant and prolific African scholar, Dr. Josef ben-Jochannan, in an epic work, African Origins of the Major Western Religions. These teachings were handed down to the Essenes (a mythical Jewish sect in pre-Christian times) who were responsible for the development of many of the teachings and concepts attributed to Jesus.
There is no doubt in InI's mind or Irit  that Jesus was an Essene. Essene doctrine is directly traceable to its African-Egyptian roots. In short, Jesus was one of the world's 16 crucified saviours whose Iliefs and teachings were founded on the doctrines and principles of the ancient African Mystery System, and the events of his life directly parallel those of Horus (the first crucified saviour), who lived at least 4100 years before Christ. For example, Horus was born of a virgin (immaculate conception), he disappeared at age 12 and reappeared at 30; he died at age 33 and descended into Hell. On the third day, he arose again and ascended into Heaven to sit on the right hand of his father, etc. Horus was cut into 14 pieces; Jesus was stabbed fourteen times. Horus' mother could find only one piece of him, his penis, and so she built obelisks in his memory. Jesus had the same phallic symbol associated with him, i.e., he had no sexual relations (at least after the conference of Nicene in 325 A.D.). So it becomes quite clear to InI that Jesus and the other world saviours are copies of Horus. Their biographical facts are the same; only the names have changed.
To be specific, there is a twenty-one year period ofJesus' life that is completely unaccounted for in the Gospel. These 21 years, InI would argue, are of critical importance in Overstanding who Jesus was as well as the source, inspiration and eventual development of his message and ministry. :"The fact is that not only Jesus but also John the Baptizer and some of Jesus' disciples were taught, by Egyptian priests, some of the fundamentals of the African Mystery System which later, through adaptations and distortions, became the foundation for what is now known as Christianity in its various forms and manifestations."
The fact that Jesus was an initiate in the African Mystery System; that Jesus was taught and did study at various subsidiary lodges of the Grand Lodge of Luxor in Africa and elsewhere (i.e. Tibet, India, etc.) The fact that it was in Africa that Jesus became acquainted with the Essenes, who were largely responsible for much of the teachings credited to Jesus."
Then came the fact thatJesus was a Black man, and there are numerous early paintings, statues and icons that graphically depict both Mary and Jesus as Black people. According to Godfrey Higgins (author of the monumental historical document Anacalypsis), who visited the cathedrals of Europe before the anti-religious period of the French Revolution, all the madonnas and Christ-childs were depicted as black: "In all the Romish countries of Europe, in France, Italy, Germany, etc., the God, Christ, as well as his mother are described in the old pictures to be black.
How could a group of people simultaneously proclaim and practice white racism and justify slavery under the guise of bringing the message of Christianity to the 'heathens' or 'pagan black savages' in Africa - and at the same time tell the truth that Jesus was a Black man and that in fact Christianity started in Africa, where Panteus and Boteus reported that Jesus was born in a cave in Ethiopia? And that it was not until the Nicene conference that Jesus' birthplace was changed to a stable in Bethlehem
InI also learned that at least 18 books -- including the book of Mary -- "that were part of the Koin Bible (the original Bible up to that point) were removed from the canons. Furthermore, many of the ancient African teachings, including the concept of reincarnation, were removed from Christianity. And it was at this time that they put into the new Bible the ancient African concept of the Immaculate Conception.
As InI started verifying this it became clear that  the history of the Holy Bible, or "HOLY SCRIPTURE AS WRITTEN BY GOD INSPIRED SCRIBES," was NOT what InI had been taught as a child.....   InI DID NOT KNOW that all of the BIBLES we use were the works of various writers, both men and women; but mostly men. And that all of the WORKS or BOOKS were compiled into what is today our various VERSIONS of "HOLY BIBLES" or "HOLY SCROLLS." InI had also failed to realize that the BIBLES we use today are the result of a period of hundreds of REVISIONS and TRANSLATIONS that cover approximately two thousand four-hundred and ninety-five [2,495] years—from ca. 700 B.C. [BCE] to 1973 A.D. [CE]. Yet all in this period was preceded by much more earlier fundamentals created and developed by indigenous African People. These later on became the basic teachings of Judaism, and then Christianity. For even Moses, the father of the OLD TESTAMENT, was an African who used much of the ancient teachings of his fellow Africans of the Nile River [BLUE and WHITE] and Great Lakes regions Mysteries System of Northeast and Central-East Africa he allegedly passed down to other African Jews that converted them into what later became the PENTATEUCH or OLD TESTAMENT [Five Books Of Moses or Holy Torah].

The very first "BIBLE" or "SCROLL" on record produced by man, with regards to paying honour and divine respect to a "CREATOR OF ALL MANKIND," was that of the African People of the Nile Valley and Great Lakes regions of Central, East and Northeast Africa. They were no different than the Africans we see today in the Harlems and Timbuctoos of the entire world we erroneously call: "NEGROES, COLORED FOLKS" and "BLACK PEOPLE" today. It was called by its African creators and developers..."THE BOOK OF THE COMING FORTH BY DAY AND BY NIGHT."

It was translated from its original Hieroglyphic Text into the English language by many Europeans since the latter part of the 19th Century A.D. The easiest one to read is called... "THE [Egyptian] "BOOK OF THE DEAD.", This translation was done by Sir Ernest A. Wallis Budge, and published in London, England during the year 1895 A.D. Since the ORIGINAL BIBLE was produced by the Africans approximately 3,400 years before the OLD TESTAMENT, and more than 4,200 years before the NEW TESTAMENT, countless VERSIONS of it have been written and published.

Hence this is how InI EXPLAIN InI's Iliefs regarding JESUS being GOD, or the ONE and ONLY Messiah.  InI DID NOT come to this desicion overnight.  It took many years of Research and Study, much Soul Searching and a Free and Open Mind willing to Accept the Truth regardless of whether it fitted the Truth InI was taught early on. There is MUCH more InI base InI's opinion of Jesus on, however the point InI have shared with the I was the beginning for InI.  InI am NOT interested in ARGUING the Facts one way or the other.  This is just the way things ARE and has Been. Ones get caught up Arguing what they PERSONALLY Ilieve the way thing SHOULD be ACCORDING TO THEM Not on Reality when discussing Jesus and that is where the Hostility comes from, NOT from the Facts. This DOES NOT in any manner go against the Teachings of H.I.M. as InI REVERE JESUS the CHRIST as H.I.M. did and will Itinue to do so. 

Nuff love

Sistah Vee

Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: ke on July 29, 2007, 08:11:12 PM
InI believe that rastafarI is god but I don't know what the I means about how I deal with it.
can you explain?
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: EmpressE on July 29, 2007, 10:10:09 PM
Bless sistren and brethrens.
Elijah brethren though your point is true, some Is are not as educated yet. I too am always learning, and IandI need to remember to be kind with our points and not harsh to bring them by.

And Ke, PM me if I wants to further talk about this.

Bless

Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 30, 2007, 02:35:49 AM
Sistren I really don't see what education has to do with it. Mis-Education maybe?
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: sistahvee on July 30, 2007, 03:35:04 AM
Bless Up Empress E

Every religion has an esoteric aspect where the Ancient Wisdom  is preserved for those who are Iritually awakened and prepared to receive higher revelations. Teachings of Deity cannot be confined or limited to a single book, tradition, or teacher. Revelation is a continuous process that meets the growing Iritual and psychological needs of humanity

Just as the lesson of the "prodigal son," in the Ible, humanity answers to God's call to return Home by initially being obedient to the unfolding Iritual "conscience," or the "still small voice" of the Ipirit. Religions were established to foster this growth--not to enforce and educate a false conscience based on man-made interpretations of the Word of Jah, but to awaken within the soul that which is already inherent and supra-natural. This was recognized by Socrates who, with his unique system of inquiry, sought to awaken the souls of his listeners to "recollect" Truth.

Pure religious precepts direct men and womben to free themselves from the creation of a sense of limitation and negativity in all expressions--in thought and behavior, for these hinders the voice of the Iirit from making its presence felt--and consequently, the delay of the Iritual evolution of the indwelling Soul.

Enforced religious dogmas programs in us a state of being where we no longer have any personal desire to commit theological "sin," of which consequence is the rise of a sense of morbid guilt and fear in their violation or non-obedience; this unnatural psychological condition prevents the Christ photonic-energies from penetrating the lower aspects of the microcosm. It is to the voice of the Iirit and the scripture of the Heart that one should pay heed, not to the confused interpretations of the minds of men.

"Behold, I (the Christ-force) stand at the door ("Sahasrara" chakra, or crown psychic-center), and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev:3:20)"

Essentially, the purpose of exoteric religion is to prepare us psychologically for the pursuit of the greater metaphysical mysteries where we are taught to transcend our mortal state of being in mind, body, and soul, and to acknowledge and identify ourselves with the Truth of our inner nature. Esotericism is the "meat" of the Ipirit in contrast to the "milk" of exoteric religious precepts meant for infants aspiring to the Iiritual path. In Islam, the heavier nourishment symbolised by meat is referred to as "Hakikat" and "Marifat" or in Christianity as "Gnosis." Judaism knows it as the "Kaballah" while in Hinduism it is the "Gupta Vidya." "Vajrayana" and its teachings is the Buddhist equivalent to the esoteric side of the Semitic religions.

Christianity, like so many other traditions, was influenced by various foreign elements--not only Judaism, and Buddhism, but also by the various Mystery Schools existing in the several centuries prior to and after its establishment... When we realize these basic principals of Truth and the Truth Jesus the Christ/ANNOINTED taught we are on our way to Greater Overstanding and Enlightenment. 

Nuff Love

Sistah Vee

Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 30, 2007, 04:47:02 AM
An Individual must enforce a Religious Dogma to become whole.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras_Nevoe on July 30, 2007, 05:24:51 AM
An Individual must enforce a Religious Dogma to become whole.

Welcome back, Elijah I

I hope this time the I can reason with I and I, with out getting bogged down by meaningless conflict.

I was wondering, in your signature it says "Tribe of Melchezidek".

are you a member of this order?

Can the I, enlight InI about this order of Rastafari?

what are their beliefs/principles/teachings/traditions/ etc.?



Blessings!!

Ras Nevoe
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 30, 2007, 05:58:05 AM
Thanks Nevoe,

I man could never be burdened by RASTAFARI, though it is true that ones here have often presented a challenge.  Actually my signature says Tribe of Judah, Order of Melchizedek, Of which I and I are high priest, Causing your request that I "enlighten I and I about it" to be absurd. All questions regarding the principles etc. of the order of Melchizedek can be answered through observance of the living legacy of HIM Halie Selassie I and is my only answer to you at present in that regard.


One Love
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Adam on July 30, 2007, 09:41:10 AM
Give Thanks fi di answers, sistren & brethren.
But I'm not interested in "Jesus is the right way, you are wrong or mis-educated," as Iman wrote in I first post.
I'm more interested in any other "non-christian"-rastafari-beliefs, who has something wise to say bout it.
Is there any?

Again, Iman think it is funny, dat mankind use to say "you nah overstand" or "you are immature" or "you don't know the truth," when dem a confronted wit another way of faith or another lifestyle. Humankind likes to "*know the mature truth*" so they can say it to those, who nah believe the same.
Not because Iman a against you or what you say,      you must just overstand dat we have our trods in life, and I&I nah consider to be christian, though I am a serious, humble, and in I own sight - not immature Ras.

There is many factors that is the reason that Iman nah believe in Jesus. Fx. Iman nah think dat "the new testament" is not trustworthy, Iman nah feel Jesus, Iman nah believe dat Jesus is the man that is prophesied inna Tanakh (old testament) and other factors, but this is not what were talking bout.

(I will first come back inna few days)
Raspect & Upfullness
JAH RasTafari
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: RasLionheart on July 30, 2007, 02:08:29 PM
Give Thanks fi di answers, sistren & brethren.
But I'm not interested in "Jesus is the right way, you are wrong or mis-educated," as Iman wrote in I first post.
I'm more interested in any other "non-christian"-rastafari-beliefs, who has something wise to say bout it.
Is there any?

Again, Iman think it is funny, dat mankind use to say "you nah overstand" or "you are immature" or "you don't know the truth," when dem a confronted wit another way of faith or another lifestyle. Humankind likes to "*know the mature truth*" so they can say it to those, who nah believe the same.
Not because Iman a against you or what you say,      you must just overstand dat we have our trods in life, and I&I nah consider to be christian, though I am a serious, humble, and in I own sight - not immature Ras.

There is many factors that is the reason that Iman nah believe in Jesus. Fx. Iman nah think dat "the new testament" is not trustworthy, Iman nah feel Jesus, Iman nah believe dat Jesus is the man that is prophesied inna Tanakh (old testament) and other factors, but this is not what were talking bout.

(I will first come back inna few days)
Raspect & Upfullness
JAH RasTafari

But still...how can the I follow Ras Tafari and not belief in Yeshua as the Christ as prophesied in Micha 5?
If the I does not believe in Yeshua as the Christ, than the I does not believe HIM words? Or does the I have a different explanation of HIM words? Can the I enlighten InI?
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: EmpressE on July 30, 2007, 02:49:16 PM
Bless Lionheart,

IandI agree with the I.
Is cannot have one without the other.

And if I's took anything IandI said as I don't believe in Christ or any of that, IandI apologize for you taking it wrong. I didn't mean "uneducated" as in ignorant but more still learning.

Guidance and protection to you all
I
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on July 30, 2007, 03:41:54 PM
I respect Selassie and not worship him, therefore for me personally I can have my difference of opinion when it comes to the subject of Christianity and his belief in Jesus.  I don't care if people label me Rasta or not Rasta or anything of the sort, I see many great things in Selassie and have learned many valuable traits and ways to see the world and politics by his examples, but, I have my serious doubts as to the authenticity of the Jesus as portrayed in the bible, which seems to be the only book he is in. For me a God needing to send his "only begotten son" to earth to die a horrible death for supposed sins of humanity because of eating a fruit which simply opened the eyes of humanity to know right from wrong is ludicrus to me.  I don't believe in a devil flying jesus up to mountain tops, dead decomposing corpses rising from the graves and walking into cities, walking on water, feeding thousands from some fish and bread, raising dead people back to life as portrayed in the bible.  To me those who wrote those stories (whoever they were) were not stupid men writing such non-sense as to be believed literally, but, wrote them to portray something deeper and more profound so it would be universal and capture the essence of a deeper meaning behind the story.  I believe this meaning is of a astro-theological as well as Initiation description being told, not a real man.  I believe it is what is called anthropromorphism and it is what the ancient writers did to explain to people ideas, concepts, laws of nature and the constellations and there movements in the sky by personifying them.  Some here say you cant follow Selassie if you dont believe exactly what he believed, so you say not me and I don't follow you.  Remember if you do believe in Jesus even his disciples had there differences of opinion.  I have read many books on Jesus and spent a long time researching the story to find personal answers to questions I had during my life and for me I have come to this opinion and I respect others opinions if they see differently.  I have learned many great attributes from Selassie and highly respect him for his humbleness as well as bravery during crucial times, I have learned to open my eyes to see how politics can be used for the betterment of people if done properly, I have leaned to see humans for what they are as a whole and not for color or class which Selassie taught me more than any other man, all these things and so much more I learned to a deeper sense after I came aquainted with His Majesty and it bothers me not in the least when people say you can't follow Selassie if you dont follow him to the "T".  To be honest many call  themselves Rasta, but, they dont "Follow" Selassie, they follow the old so called traditional beliefs of other Rastas and the old hearsay pertaining to Selassie.  Selassie had nothing to do with dreadlocks, herb, reggae, ital living etc, etc.  All those things are good and bring a sense of closeness to earth and the "ONE" but they are part of the traditional beliefs associated with Selassie.  Selassie was dealing with important life changing situations on a lage scale.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 30, 2007, 10:43:41 PM
I'm more interested in any other "non-christian"-rastafari-beliefs, who has something wise to say bout it.
Is there any?

No. Not even your "beliefs" can be associated with RasTafari.

Also, Who are these words below attempting to address?

Not because Iman a against you or what you say,      you must just overstand dat we have our trods in life,
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras_Nevoe on July 31, 2007, 05:10:35 AM
Thanks Nevoe,

I man could never be burdened by RASTAFARI, though it is true that ones here have often presented a challenge.

Actually the challenge arises when I and I attempt to reason with the I, and the I decides to insult and belittle, I and I. That is when the challenge arises, for example I asked you basic questions about something the I claim to be a member of, and the I refers to InI questions as "absurd". That is when the "challenge" arise!

Quote
Actually my signature says Tribe of Judah, Order of Melchizedek, Of which I and I are high priest,

I said melchezidek, but the babylon word is actually "melchizede(c)k", I am ignorant to that term I prefer to use the word "MELKITSIDEK" which is the name of the order in pure Ge'ez (the pure language of Ithiopia, where the order is headquartered).

Quote
Causing your request that I "enlighten I and I about it" to be absurd. All questions regarding the principles etc. of the order of Melchizedek can be answered through observance of the living legacy of HIM Halie Selassie I and is my only answer to you at present in that regard.

That sounds like you don't have the answers to my question, and you just put Order of "Melchized(c)k" in your signatute for show(not surprised).

I realize you are slippery as a fish, so I'll ask an even simpler question.

According to the teachings of the Order of Melchezidek(Melkitsidek), what does the colour "BLACK" symbolize?

Blessings!!!

Ras Nevoe


Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on July 31, 2007, 06:32:17 PM
It is absurd to ask that I and I were enlightened about something which we maintain full authority of, and NOT on topic. I and I could never be insulted or belittled, you sound like a frustrated individual who's heart is full of false pride and malice and I pray that you can correct yourself to know peace in this life. Regarding your question, I and I are not aware of any "color black".

Blessings!!!
Posted on: July 31, 2007, 07:20:18 pm
and as far as the spelling of the orders name goes and the petty little words games "rasta" people often try to play, I am spelling the name of the order as it is spelled in the modern psalms. If the I has a problem with that he can take it up with the Emperor who has proclaimed all versions of the word to be one in spirit. I also question any melchizedekian order that claims to maintain an earthly "headquarters".
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras_Nevoe on August 01, 2007, 03:19:27 PM
It is absurd to ask that I and I were enlightened about something which we maintain full authority of, and NOT on topic. I and I could never be insulted or belittled, you sound like a frustrated individual who's heart is full of false pride and malice and I pray that you can correct yourself to know peace in this life. Regarding your question, I and I are not aware of any "color black".

Blessings!!!
Posted on: July 31, 2007, 07:20:18 pm
and as far as the spelling of the orders name goes and the petty little words games "rasta" people often try to play, I am spelling the name of the order as it is spelled in the modern psalms. If the I has a problem with that he can take it up with the Emperor who has proclaimed all versions of the word to be one in spirit. I also question any melchizedekian order that claims to maintain an earthly "headquarters".

Just as I thought, no answers to I questions. Just backward talk!

Nice to know that nothing has changed, same "eeeediot attitude"!

Blessings!!!

Ras Nevoe
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on August 01, 2007, 08:32:09 PM
Yes, Nothing has seem to have changed as a thread about Jesus Christ and RasTafari has turned into another DISScussion of me. Any with eyes see that people have personal issue with me because they do not overstand my words and or feel threatened in they it exposes their misunderstandings. For there is NOTHING backward about my talk. Its the realest there is. After years of reasoning I have yet to see one truly Rasta reasoning transpire over the Internet. I wish I could say that it was sabotage but its mostly that the the so called Rasta people on line are too full of false pride, vain imaginations, and racist ideology.
I'll just repeat so its clear, Explicitly denying the existence of Jesus Christ is completely incompatible with identifying ones self as RasTafari.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Nicro on August 01, 2007, 09:02:10 PM
False pride? Read your words. Or the most "Real" speech as you call it.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on August 01, 2007, 10:34:31 PM
Read my words? I wrote them. Who the cap fit let them wear it. I'm not going to be talked down to by a bunch of duppies. If you got something to say then say it. But this vague casting doubt on my opinion is the work of little boys. Again why is it that every time I got something to say the whole topic gets shut down to try and punk me down? You'd be wise to recognize. Anyways, The topic is Idren who deny Jesus Christ as confessed by His Imperial Majesty.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Wigga on August 02, 2007, 06:09:35 AM
Read my words? I wrote them. Who the cap fit let them wear it. I'm not going to be talked down to by a bunch of duppies. If you got something to say then say it. But this vague casting doubt on my opinion is the work of little boys. Again why is it that every time I got something to say the whole topic gets shut down to try and punk me down? You'd be wise to recognize. Anyways, The topic is Idren who deny Jesus Christ as confessed by His Imperial Majesty.


Personally I have read your words before, and InI reading them now.....and....."nothing has changed".........well, except that you're trying to pretend to be humble............I and I had a discussion about "white male arrogance"(I know, I know, you are not white, GOTCHA!), we should have used your posts(words) as example.

Your "words" still remain on this forum, remember!

HOTEP!
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: NyaInIJahLove on August 03, 2007, 04:59:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JsW3bYj7O8
Bless up Idren
I found this a OneJahFul look into a Shushemane (sorry if spelling wrong) residents reasoning covering this topic
personally, I don't see how people can call demselves Rasta and not believe in Christ, they obviously don't listen to closely to His Majesty, Who was/is a CHRISTIAN
One Love
Sis Nya I
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: rastalevi on August 03, 2007, 11:57:42 AM
well,i'm new to this group,excuse i don't know the slag words.
for me yahshua is rastaman,the highier revelation of Jah,no one on earth or heaven have that words that i recognise as the king of kings,lion of judah,Alpha and Omega. Now the time have to be acomplished,HIM is waiting on the jah side,to return full of power.
had been many rastas before the jamaicans,but in this time the message come from them specially Marley spreads the way along the world. Rasta is a way not a religion,now time of confusion,but you know?
finally his sheeps recognise his words,and thats it,nothing else,
jah bless and show the truth to all of us!
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on August 03, 2007, 02:52:56 PM
Why did God send his only son here for again?  Didn't God flood the world and kill all living things before for the sins of man? What was it this time that God had to Die at the hands of his own creations? So i guess now that that is over there is no need for God to send anymore down here to save us, were all saved if we believe right.  No, I dont believe the story without a single proof for the one called Jesus Christ in the bible and apparently no one else did for over 100 years after the supposed incredible things it says he did. And remember my "Rasta" high priests on here the words of His Majesty:

No one should question the faith of others, for no human being can judge the ways of God

Haile Selassie I

If you say you follow Selassie completely then cut your locks and stop burning the herb and start learning about politics and how to solve africas problems.  Learn to write and speak amharic, join the Ethiopian Orthodox Church etc, etc.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: EmpressCarla on August 03, 2007, 03:02:09 PM
Blessings

personally, I don't see how people can call demselves Rasta and not believe in Christ, they obviously don't listen to closely to His Majesty, Who was/is a CHRISTIAN
One Love
Sis Nya I

Rasta are the truest KRSTians...they are just not Jesus Christians. ;)

Bless up, Human!

Be blessed
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on August 03, 2007, 03:15:50 PM
EmpressCarla if you mean annointed as the word KRST meant in Egypt then yes.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: NegusNegustiality on August 03, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
Ises unto the Most Haile I,

First and foremost the Rastafari Movement is grounded upon the kingciples of truths, rights & justice.  If ones are denying the literal Istorical side, then that is not the truth.  Istorically the person of Jesus never existed as one cannot quote to Ini 3 books outside of the bible or the lost books of the bible written in that dispensation that refer to this Jesus.  Prophecy states His name would be Emmanuel not Jesus.  In these times it is the example that is more important than the person called Jesus.  Be Jesus upon thy daily trod don't worship Him.  Jesus is a fable to illustrate the bigger lessons in life, these lessons being Iniversal and not exclusive.  Life is bigger than Jesus & the bible, for creation is the presence of Jah while the bible and doctrine are far removed accounts. 
  Rastafari dont have to deal with be"lie"f because it is because of lack of "know"ledge that ini people perish from not be"lie"f, seen.  Jesus Christians believe that Jesus is the King of Kings but cannot prove it to anyone upon creation outside of the bible.  Rastafari know that HIM Haile Selassie I is the Godhead according to His actions & titles.  Jesus is used to keep the people docile and dumb.  The office of Christ is open to who ever can step up and fill the office.

inHIM
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on August 03, 2007, 07:04:39 PM
Well said Negus, well said.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: prophet777 on August 03, 2007, 08:38:14 PM
Negus

Well said. But there was indeed a "Jesus." At least a "Christ." There were many of them !

Saviours is them "REAL" name...meaning of them "names."

People that showed modern and even historical mankind which way to follow. People that have left such a great impact on this world like no other can...through what they have done. They themselves may not have been perfect but, the impression they have left on us is "the example/examples" we should be living in.

Now I am not talking about the likes of Ceasar, Hitler, Pope, or Mussolonni - cause them left the devil impact that still exist....due to those who follow them.

I am talking about the righteous examples. The same examples that will conquer all....eventually. Wether them like it or not.

prophet7
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Adam on August 03, 2007, 11:44:16 PM
Greetings Sistren & Brethren.
This is very interesting. The I's answers to I quest-ions is very interesting.
First and foremost Iman would like to thank Human & Negus fi wisdom dat I&I asked for.
Iman now have some questions again:

@Human I:
It may sound, in your way of talking bout His Majesty, dat He is a "normal" humanbeing, and not JAH ALMIGHTY. Is dat right observed? (just because I'm interested)

@Negus I:
So you nah believe dat Jesus is our saviour and JAHs son? You believe in him as a newer version of people like Noah?     I&I believe in Jesus from Nazareth as a fable! Therefore dem others pon this forum say I&I nah true ras!

Give thanks & raspect fi all dem who overstand JAH words & works:
"No one should question the faith of others, for no human being can judge the ways of God"

ONENESS FAMILY ITES
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Nicro on August 04, 2007, 12:45:01 AM
Christ, I believe did exists historically. But not as God as some people think. We are all God. Jesus simply became enlightened and taught this.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: 1080man on August 04, 2007, 05:33:42 AM
isnt part of being a ras finding the truth on the I's own?
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on August 04, 2007, 03:18:29 PM
To my bredrin Ras Adam, I personally believe His Majesty is a man just like the two of us, I do not see Selassie as the almighty, the Almighty to me is beyond the confines of man. I also don't believe His Majesty is any more divine than I or You as a human.  I believe he comes from a very long line of Kings and Queens extending far beyond the biblical lineage of Kings and Queens.  Personally I feel divine means not from an anthropomorphic god but a wisdom and science departed to men from "men" of a higher stature who the mankind of the time saw as gods.  This has to do with cycles of humanity at times far in the past, some races who were extremely smart at sciences, astrology, agriculture, mathematics etc, etc because their mental capacities were more developed due to there cycles throughout time, they in return departed these teachings to men whose capacity was not yet fully evolved and they took these other men to be as gods or saviours. I believe Selassie was of this higher capacity because his blood lineage goes back beyond known history. So in this sense i would say he is divine, but, in the sense that he is God, no. This is just my personal belief.  One Love bredrin.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Adam on August 04, 2007, 11:37:59 PM
Ites
@1080man:
Yes I! That's the truth.

@Human: It's always interesting and full of wisdom to hear others in their line and way of thinking.
Rasta bun tribal wars and hate amongst bredrin, so we must accept each other and each others beliefs. I have seen you quoting some rabbis and so,   do you have any things to do with "traditional" Judaism - in your belief?

Raspect & oneness Idren
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Human on August 05, 2007, 01:29:24 PM
No not really, I just have read many writings from certain Rabbi's works.  One love to you my bredrin.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Ras Adam on August 05, 2007, 03:16:16 PM
Ites, bredda
May JAH be with you
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: NyaInIJahLove on August 06, 2007, 03:15:55 AM
Quote
Rasta are the truest KRSTians...they are just not Jesus Christians.



Blessed Empress
The I speaks the truth,as far as I can sight it
Apologies for not using the right spelling. His Majesty was/is a KRSTian of the Ethiopian Orthodox.
Also sorry for sounding intolerant of others views.
May the Clear Light of pure Mind guide us all Home.
One love
Nya
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: prophet777 on August 09, 2007, 09:17:31 PM
Iesus not a fable - fact !
All one have fe know is where HIM truly from ! I - STORY. Get to KNOW that and then you get to KNOW who U are. Where u from ?

Can anyone here answer that in a sense that it makes sense ?

prophet7
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 12:39:18 AM
I respect Selassie and not worship him, therefore for me personally I can have my difference of opinion when it comes to the subject of Christianity and his belief in Jesus.  I don't care if people label me Rasta or not Rasta or anything of the sort, I see many great things in Selassie and have learned many valuable traits and ways to see the world and politics by his examples, but, I have my serious doubts as to the authenticity of the Jesus as portrayed in the bible, which seems to be the only book he is in. For me a God needing to send his "only begotten son" to earth to die a horrible death for supposed sins of humanity because of eating a fruit which simply opened the eyes of humanity to know right from wrong is ludicrus to me.  I don't believe in a devil flying jesus up to mountain tops, dead decomposing corpses rising from the graves and walking into cities, walking on water, feeding thousands from some fish and bread, raising dead people back to life as portrayed in the bible.  To me those who wrote those stories (whoever they were) were not stupid men writing such non-sense as to be believed literally, but, wrote them to portray something deeper and more profound so it would be universal and capture the essence of a deeper meaning behind the story.  I believe this meaning is of a astro-theological as well as Initiation description being told, not a real man.  I believe it is what is called anthropromorphism and it is what the ancient writers did to explain to people ideas, concepts, laws of nature and the constellations and there movements in the sky by personifying them.  Some here say you cant follow Selassie if you dont believe exactly what he believed, so you say not me and I don't follow you.  Remember if you do believe in Jesus even his disciples had there differences of opinion.  I have read many books on Jesus and spent a long time researching the story to find personal answers to questions I had during my life and for me I have come to this opinion and I respect others opinions if they see differently.  I have learned many great attributes from Selassie and highly respect him for his humbleness as well as bravery during crucial times, I have learned to open my eyes to see how politics can be used for the betterment of people if done properly, I have leaned to see humans for what they are as a whole and not for color or class which Selassie taught me more than any other man, all these things and so much more I learned to a deeper sense after I came aquainted with His Majesty and it bothers me not in the least when people say you can't follow Selassie if you dont follow him to the "T".  To be honest many call  themselves Rasta, but, they dont "Follow" Selassie, they follow the old so called traditional beliefs of other Rastas and the old hearsay pertaining to Selassie.  Selassie had nothing to do with dreadlocks, herb, reggae, ital living etc, etc.  All those things are good and bring a sense of closeness to earth and the "ONE" but they are part of the traditional beliefs associated with Selassie.  Selassie was dealing with important life changing situations on a lage scale.

Hi guys, I'm a newbie here but I wanted to chime in on this thread, I don't mean to cause any offence, I pretty much share the same views as "human" as far as "christianality" goes, I don't believe that the bible as I/we know it is factual, I believe that it is a collection of symbolic stories put together as guidance to living better, will I refer to myself as a Rasta, at this point probably not, out of respect for others that have stronger feelings on the matter but this is what is in my heart, this feels like home to me and something to be/trod towards....do I need to learn more?...sure thing and that's why I'm here but at the end of the day I'm not going to lie and say that Haile Selassie I is a god because that's not what I believe, I believe that people can be great and do great things but no, not be Gods, there's too much wickedness going on in the world for me to believe that there's a God on earth standing by watching people/animals suffer without doing something, that just doesn't make sense to me, for that reason I believe it's up to us to look within and step up as our own guru's.

Juss ma 2 cents

peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on December 27, 2007, 03:15:11 AM
There are elements attempting to infiltrate the Rastafari movement that have vested interests in discrediting the Literal and Istorical veracity of Yesus Christos. Whether True or False, the fact is that it is something one cannot know in a directly empirical or secular sense(something of high value to the infiltrators). What We are given with out question is the Utterance of the Emperor, Which it seems would be given more 'stock' by people claiming to revere its source as "g-d".
Posted on: December 27, 2007, 03:03:59 am
An interesting aside is that the cover of this months Smithsonian Magazine is a picture of Jesus and Mary(who are black'ish') and the article tells how the EoC has an oral trodition that during Jesus' exile from Israel, He actually came to Ethiopia and it has pictures of where they supposedly sat each morning.

Ras Tafari Love
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 03:53:21 PM
This ain't directed at any body....it's just my observations as a newbie....

Personaly.... I think that within a movement/belief system, all we can do is "take care of home" look after ourselves as individuals, for example, if I believe that something should be done a certain way then I have the right to lead by example and make sure I live my life that certain way, then others will see how well it works for me and may also feel led to follow suit, I don't have the right to make sure others live that way or dictate that anybody else follow my lead or do as I do because everybody is different and reacts/interprets things differently, the problem with having any "movement" or a collection of people is that at some point things are going to want to change or evolve from what it once was, you can fight this element as much as you want but change is a law of nature and we are natural beings, especially if it's an old "movement" just because something evolves or changes it doesn't mean that everything is lost, I believe that something can change and yet still stay the same, just like a animal can shed it's skin but it's still the same animal or you can paint your car a different colour but it's still the same car, I think trying to keep something stagnant will eventually lead to it's downfall, especially once a collective of people are involved.

All I can do is share my opinions with love and accept that others within my belief system will have different opinions that I may not agree with but just because I don't agree with another persons opinion it doesn't make that opinion wrong, it just makes it different, if you want a "movement" to stay healthy there has to be nuff acceptance, patients, love and compassion within it.

Juss my 2 cents.

peace and love

F1

Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on December 27, 2007, 04:02:33 PM
Yes the fruit has made you wise. My point is that the movement needs a firm first step, which in my opinion it hasn't even taken.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 05:03:43 PM
Yes the fruit has made you wise. My point is that the movement needs a firm first step, which in my opinion it hasn't even taken.

Much love Bredren....I've seen your posts around the forum and I can totally see where your coming from....as a newbie looking in, you come across very much like I do in the Fruitarian Lifestyle, you seem to be a passionate, die hard purist with a need to stick to the original principles/values of this movement, therefore you have a definate/clear vision of how things are supposed to be done, which can often be mis-interpreted, much like myself when it comes to Fruitarianism of which I am a pioneer that stands alone.

I stand alone because every one in the raw food movement has forsaken Fruitarianism and eating our natural food in it's pure state and has fallen by the wayside, I stand for Ital livity, which is not everybodies cup of tea, I've had many people critisize or attack me for my no nonsense approach and make the mistake of interpreting my passion, vision for what I feel is right and strength of character for anger and intimdation, this has led to many hostile interactions with people that were born out of my own frustration, it's through this experience I have learnt that not everybody shares the exact same vision, intense passion or drive as me and that many people simple want to do things at their own pace at a level that best suits them without feeling like they are being pushed out of their comfort zones or attacked and I've had to learn to ease up and let others evolve, full fill their own person destiny, many times my passion has been interpreted as intimidation simply because to me my own personal vision is so clear.

For myself, all I can say my bredren is that this lifestyle has ALWAYS been in my heart, I was just too scared to accepted it until now, because of certain experiences I shunned mainstream religion/bible, but always left a spot open for a higher power that I couldn't explain to do it's work and I feel in my heart that this is what's happening now, so being here is my first step on my journey, personaly I believe that there is a Jah but to me right now Jah is unexplainable, maybe this view will change as I grow, who knows....was this how you felt in your early days?....I gotta admit that when I went through the forum and saw all the arguing and fighting I was really put off from coming here again but "soilder of jah" has been giving me his time and reasoning with me, if it wasn't for him I would of been gone....I honestly believe he was sent to keep me on the path and that's a major breakthrough for me to say something like that so I don't say that lightly, now I can accept that I may not share the same views on certain things as you/others but at the same time I know that I have the same desire to learn and love in my heart for what is right as any veteran member here.

Tell me, do you think that the firm step that you say this movement needs was taken years ago in the beginning but has become diluted or changed/evolved as it has grown?

Peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: moses on December 27, 2007, 06:41:47 PM
Greetings The Fruitarian One...

Blessed reasoning the I had bestowed among InI in this thread... Give Thanks!

I as a man can stand ya ways... And welcome aboard this Zion Train.

RastafarI is Wisdom to Live with emacipation, freedom and Love.

So Live Up !

One Love

Jah Bless

Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 07:04:00 PM
Greetings The Fruitarian One...

Blessed reasoning the I had bestowed among InI in this thread... Give Thanks!

I as a man can stand ya ways... And welcome aboard this Zion Train.

RastafarI is Wisdom to Live with emacipation, freedom and Love.

So Live Up !

One Love

Jah Bless



Much love Moses, I gotta say I love the respect with which greetings are given, I feel like I'm doing you a great injustice because I don't yet know the terms, etc....yet..but hey, we all gotta start somewhere right?....just know that much love goes out to you from my being!...thanks for the welcome bredren!

peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on December 27, 2007, 07:39:12 PM
Heart of Reasoning,

Quote
Tell me, do you think that the firm step that you say this movement needs was taken years ago in the beginning but has become diluted or changed/evolved as it has grown?


Good question.  No, I do not think it was taken because I think that the "founders' of the movement received only partial revelations, and that the true significance of Rastafari is Virtually Unknown.  What has become diluted is the terminology (partially as consequence of the Internet) through misuse. I and I essence is invulnerable, unchanging, And only partialy manifest.

Quote
Jah is unexplainable etc...was this how you felt in your early days?

Yes, very much so. I was raised a Jew and my concept of g-d was always an unknowable force and still is *to the  degree that Selassie I is incomprehensible in His entirety*. What's changed is based mostly on the words of His Majesty and experiential insight that HIM is JAH in a concrete sense gained through Faith in Jesus Christ.


Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 08:09:12 PM
Heart of Reasoning,


Good question.  No, I do not think it was taken because I think that the "founders' of the movement received only partial revelations, and that the true significance of Rastafari is Virtually Unknown.  What has become diluted is the terminology (partially as consequence of the Internet) through misuse. I and I essence is invulnerable, unchanging, And only partialy manifest.

Yes, very much so. I was raised a Jew and my concept of g-d was always an unknowable force and still is *to the  degree that Selassie I is incomprehensible in His entirety*. What's changed is based mostly on the words of His Majesty and experiential insight that HIM is JAH in a concrete sense gained through Faith in Jesus Christ.




Wow..thanks for that insight....

As a newbie looking in and trying to do as much research as I can on the movement may I ask why the founders only recieved partial revelations/what prevented them from getting the rest and what revelations do you speak of?

It seems to me that the religion is the main aspect and lifestyle/livity come second...

thanks for sharing your views with me.

peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on December 27, 2007, 09:02:59 PM
Quote
why the founders only recieved partial revelations/what prevented them from getting the rest and what revelations do you speak of?

Why? I can only speculate as to the ways of JAH who is the source of all revelation, But I would say because the stage was not fully set. I wouldn't say that anything necessarily prevented ones from "getting the rest" but just that to every thing there is a season and every actor plays his part. What I speak of is often referred to as "the New World Order" and relates to the ascension and liberation of all Imanity and the planet for which, though you wont hear much about it, HIM Haile Selassie is responsible.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 09:28:21 PM
Blessed & Divine Love,


Rastafari is not a religion. People that believe in Jesus Christ are known as Christians. Rastafari is ONE who trod KRST having faith and not having faith in______ ________.


That which is beyond contemplation is not God or any name ascribe to "it". It is beyond any name. One does not measure darkness one measures the revealed/light. Man created god who created man! There is law and higher law. Truth and higher truth!


Talaku Meri Qedamawi Haile Selassie I!


Rastafari
iamsunt



But then isn't Christianality also called a religion?...what is KRST?

Maybe "religion" is just a word used to try to describe the Rasta movement and as a newbi I can only use the terms that I see being used elsewhere, remember I've just started my journey so forgive me if it is the wrong term to use.

My intention is not to question your truth but to learn my own....as for the rest of your post it just went over my head...

Peace an love

F1
Posted on: December 27, 2007, 09:20:38 pm
Why? I can only speculate as to the ways of JAH who is the source of all revelation, But I would say because the stage was not fully set. I wouldn't say that anything necessarily prevented ones from "getting the rest" but just that to every thing there is a season and every actor plays his part. What I speak of is often referred to as "the New World Order" and relates to the ascension and liberation of all Imanity and the planet for which, though you wont hear much about it, HIM Haile Selassie is responsible.

Oh I see...I thought some event happened, thanks for sharing.

Peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: I ELIJAH I on December 27, 2007, 09:37:19 PM
Rastafari is not a religion. People that believe in Jesus Christ are known as Christians. Rastafari is ONE who trod KRST having faith and not having faith in______ ________.

That which is beyond contemplation is not God or any name ascribe to "it". It is beyond any name. One does not measure darkness one measures the revealed/light. Man created god who created man! There is law and higher law. Truth and higher truth!

Semantics. Who are you to say that beyond contemplation is not g-d?  What is it then? If you cannot contemplate it, You cannot assert that it *doesn't* exist because it is beyond your contemplation. And if you cannot assert that it doesn't exist, How can you state what it is not? Is G-d to you mearly that which you can contemplate? In my opinion "god" is not a name, but a word used to designate perhaps exactly that which is beyond contemplation.  I agree in some sense Rastafari is not a religion, Because Rastafari is a man, But what is Religion? It is worship of G-d. Can a man BE the worship of G-d? I think he can, and I think Ras Tafari is precisely such a man. So in that sense Rastafari is not a Religion but is Religion. Ras Tafari is the identified existence or state of being that worships g-d or "Manifests Divinity". And dont forget Rastafari is the sworn defender of the Orthodox Christian Faith.
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: The Fruitarian One on December 27, 2007, 09:57:41 PM
Semantics. Who are you to say that beyond contemplation is not g-d?  What is it then? If you cannot contemplate it, You cannot assert that it *doesn't* exist because it is beyond your contemplation. And if you cannot assert that it doesn't exist, How can you state what it is not? Is G-d to you mearly that which you can contemplate? In my opinion "god" is not a name, but a word used to designate perhaps exactly that which is beyond contemplation.  I agree in some sense Rastafari is not a religion, Because Rastafari is a man, But what is Religion? It is worship of G-d. Can a man BE the worship of G-d? I think he can, and I think Ras Tafari is precisely such a man. So in that sense Rastafari is not a Religion but is Religion. Ras Tafari is the identified existence or state of being that worships g-d or "Manifests Divinity". And dont forget Rastafari is the sworn defender of the Orthodox Christian Faith.

You know something Elijah I...I can actually get where your coming from...and I feel that what you just posted would be my truth also if I believed that H.I.M was God/Jah....

Having said that it also highlights to me how confusing all this is and provides me with an insight as to why there is such confusion/division/debate, personaly I think most people are on the same page but argue about how to explain it...

Peace an love

F1
Title: Re: Rasta and not believing in Jesus as Christ
Post by: Soldier of Jah on January 02, 2008, 09:10:39 PM
Matt, chapter 24, verse 36:
"Day and hour noone feels, not even the angels of heaven, not even the Son, none but the Father"

That sentence proofs for me that the Son and Father is not the same. Because if the Son was the Father, then it wouldnt say that not even the Son knows, only the Father.

Bless.