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[haftrini]

Repatriation is for those that were taken wrongfully from Africa into bondage.

Very well put!

There is no other form of Racism but White Supremacy. You cannot prove this wrong.

If that were an actual fact I guess I could take you seriously.

You keep mentioning Egypt in the mix of things. What kind of supremacy is it called when African Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews for so many years? The African domination of the Jews wasn't a form of African supremacy even though they thought of the Jews as an inferior race fit for nothing else than brick-making and being beaten daily? What if the roles were reversed? I doubt you'd hesitate for a second to call it "white" supremacy, but maybe I'm wrong. How do you explain Egypt's enslavement of the Hebrews?

[haftrini]

P.S.- Ark I that was a great post!

[Ras Saadon]

The African domination of the Jews wasn't a form of African supremacy even though they thought of the Jews as an inferior race fit for nothing else than brick-making and being beaten daily? What if the roles were reversed? I doubt you'd hesitate for a second to call it "white" supremacy, but maybe I'm wrong. How do you explain Egypt's enslavement of the Hebrews?

fear Idren, nah racism.. Exodus 1:8-11, the Egyptians feared that the Hebrew will grow larger and attack them so to stop the Hebrews development they turned them into slaves..

[Tottenham]

I am a Turkish Muslim, but I appreciate and want to understand many different cultures and beliefs.I think that it is beautiful that Rastafarianism has played such a major part in restoring black pride and bringing recognition to Africa,the ancient continent that has been ignored and abused for too long.Although I understand that it is a religion rooted in Black African culture I think that some followers seem too concerned with race.I am not thoroughly educated on Rastafarianism so if anyone thinks I'm wrong then please enlighten me.I just feel that religion/beliefs should not be closed to a particular sector of society.It's discrimination and I dont think discrimination has any place in the world, let alone within a religion.I for one know that I would not reject a white/European person who was serious about becoming a Muslim.
But I agree that the west has exploited the rest of the world for too long,especially the East.They are still doing it to Turkey now.And I am sickened that the West still refuses to recognize the Turkish part of Cyprus, going as far as banning adverstising of it in London because it offends certain sectors of society(The Greeks!)

[Positive_Vibration]

Blessed Love


Very good point sistren! As long as one meets the standard set by the countries immigration policy I see no problem with people living where they want. But if ones ancestors were not wrongfully taken into bondage then do not call it repatriation. For those that say that the land do not belong to the people there. I say they are wrong. When ones ancestors have live on that land from iration. Died and buried in that soil. Lives lost to protect that land. How can one just negate this and say the land belongs to no one? Do not confuse that which is absolute and that which is relative.

If ones are to have the one new race of people that HIM Haile Selassie i spoke of justice have to firstly be served. So the role of All Rasta people is a fight for justice. All Rasta people must support reparation and repatriation for the descendants of those Africans that were wrongfully taken into bondage. It is one struggle for Justice. Sitting around and saying everyone is African does not solve anything.

[bgcolor=Green] Rastafari  [/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=Yellow] Haile Selassie I  [/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=Red] Fiyah  [/bgcolor]  

Brilliant. I wish these points were made earlier in the thread. Thank you

One love

[haftrini]

If one reads only the Bible alone concerning these issues one will only get a biased view of things.

I was actually referring to the Egyptian account of things. Tacitus records the Egyptian view like this:

"Most writers, however, agree in stating that once a disease, which horribly disfigured the body, broke out over Egypt; that king Bocchoris, seeking a remedy, consulted the oracle of Hammon, and was bidden to cleanse his realm, and to convey into some foreign land this race detested by the gods."

They were a hated race to the Egyptians.

[Wahine]

The idea of "race" is a human creation. (Andrew Hacker) Two Nations.

[Ras Saadon]

Very good point sistren! As long as one meets the standard set by the countries immigration policy I see no problem with people living where they want. But if ones ancestors were not wrongfully taken into bondage then do not call it repatriation.

Idren fiyah, that what InI meant, InI nah mean that white can repatriate to africa, InI meant that they can live there if they want.

[Valerie]

Greetings,

Fiyah wrote:
Sistren Valerie I hope you get a chance to bless this thread with your views on this:

And, as far as I am concerned there is a BIG difference between 'identity' and 'identification'. But I don't have time to express my point of you on that, although it would be interesting and appropriate to emphasize this distinction.

Here is what I mean:
It is my contention that there is a clear difference between "constructing your identity" from a culture (Rastafari) that glorify our African heritage and recounts the suffering and Resistance of Black West Indians and "identifying" yourself with a culture (Rastafari) which has nothing to do with you.

There is a huge difference between the African descent people who come into Rastafari to gain self-awareness, African Pride/Dignity and to reconciliate themselves with their African heritage and Non-African descent people who come into Rastafari becoz' obviously they feel a loss of cultural identity and wish to adopt other cultures that connect them to their natural sense of Self.

Since this thread addresses to Non African Rastas, I would like you to recognize that, to some extent, it is difficult for you (indeed impossible) to adopt some tenets of the Rasta culture (reparations, repatriations, glorification of our African heritage...). I would like you to recognize that yes you came into Rastafari culture coz' you were going trough an identity crisis. It can be overstandable since Babylone, Europe, Western "civilization" offers no real/ valuable culture.

Yes, there is an enormous difference between "identity" and "identification".
I don't think that Non African Rastas are constructing their own identity with Rastafari but are rather "identifying" with some tenets of the culture (H.I.M speeches, Reggae music, Rasta colors...).
Rasta does not shape a "universal identity". Besides, the day there will be a universal identity it will be the end of the world!

Let me now go back to a statement of R.Viking: Rastafari is the liberation of MAN. Let me stop writing and burst out laughing! You have obviously misoverstood the real purpose of Rasta Culture.
Sorry Bro. RViking, but I cannot let you say such a thing and spread misinformation in this forum. the TRUE, ORIGINAL, REAL meaning of Rasta Culture is the Liberation of Black People (particularly in the West Indies, but also abroad).
Black People liberate Urself from your "slave mentality". This is what Rasta is all about. And H.I.M is the Liberator/Redemptor of the Black People as M.M.Garvey prophetized it. But I agree to say that H.I.M can be the Lord of anybody for His teachings are invaluable.
Yet, you have the right to see Rasta as U want and have your own viewpoint. Maybe it is in this way that you find the possibility to "feel at ease" in this Afrocentrist Caribbean Culture. But, please don't deny the fact that Rasta is Liberation for Black People; by denying that Ur denying the Culture itself.

After having spoken my mind, I want to add that this post is not an "anti Non African Rastas post". Not at all. I just wanted to emphazise the clear distinction between "identity" and "identification", coz' I think this thread is the opportunity to do it, and coz' I think that the notions of "identity" and "identification" are central issues in this thread.

I am not saying that Non Africans cannot be Rasta? Who am I to sustain that?
No, I am just saying that everybody should recognize a number of things (particularly Non African Rastas) and know their place and stop questioning the essence of Rastafari by turning it in a Universalist Culture coz' it is not. Besides, Universal-ism is a racist approach.

Sorry for this long and messy post.
Paix et Amour. Valérie.

 

[Ras Saadon]

Seen sistren Valerie, very enlightening post.

PS. you nah have to apologize after each post for your english or something like that, cuz your english is very good and posts are always very overstandable.

[Valerie]

Greetings,

Fiyah wrote:

I think that Rasta is culture and also beyond culture.

You 're right, so right.

I feel that Rastas fight is Iniversal. The reason why people not  descended from the Africans taken into bondage can identify with Rasta  is because it deals with the Iniversal struggle for justice

Fiyah, I fully agree with you.
Actually I should have quoted your entire post instead of some sentences! You have given a right explanation/definition, if I might say, of what is Rasta all about. And, you have rightly added something really important concerning "identity" and "identification":
Yet I think Africa for the Africans has to do with both with one constructing their identity firstly and then also as a means of identification.

And yes, I do think that Non African Rastas can be helpful in this struggle for justice. And yes, African descent Rastas, it is our role to lead this struggle. Yeah man!

I think that this thread is really interesting to reason on for it is a HIGHLY important topic. Give thanks Fiyah.

Saadon, I have taken good note of what you said. Thank you.
From now on, I will get rid of this bad habit of apologizing for my English!

Paix et Amour. Valérie.

[Positive_Vibration]

Blessed Love

Great post sistren ValeriE! I agree with you on the distinctions you made about constructing identity and one identifying with something. One can identify with African culture and not be African, very true. Yet I think Africa for the Africans has to do with both with one constructing their identity firstly and then also as a means of identification.

I think that Rasta is culture and also beyond culture. I feel that non direct descendants of those taken into bondage can still be of benefit to Africans that seek repatriation, reparation etc. If it is even to give I and I a drive to airport to drop I off on the way to Zion! I feel that Rastas fight is Iniversal. The reason why people not  descended from the Africans taken into bondage can identify with Rasta  is because it deals with the Iniversal struggle for justice. These are Basic Human Right that are beyond culture. One must also know that amongst Africans there are cultural difference also. There is not ONE African Culture. There are many.  At the heart of what Rasta teach is Love, however. This is an iniveral message.  So you are correct that it is not Universialism in terms of cultural identity. It is the Love that Rasta Manifest that ones can identify with and is Iniversal. So all saying that everyone is African will never solve anything. It is the love, love of Justice, clean ital livity, love of life etc. that over all inifiy Rasta people. So for the non African there is no need to deny any aspect of what the Movement of Rastafari is about even if you do not identify with those aspects. It is not your role to redefine Rasta Culture to suite your own identity. The foundation of the Rastafari Movement is for the liberation of the African. Yet as HIM say when the Africans are free all will be free.





[bgcolor=Green] Rastafari  [/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=Yellow] Haile Selassie I  [/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=Red] Fiyah  [/bgcolor]

Seen Fiyah, and it is I's intention to be right there along with the Africans in peace, love, and harmony. Not for repatriation but for justice, help, and unification.

InI have learned much from this thread. InI give thanks.

One love

[EmpressGong]

Bless

It is good to know that finally people will take heed to the same message Ive been tryin to put across in my posts whenever we discuss non-afrakan rastas.  I just want to point out something Valerie said that I have taken a beating for but I stand by no matter what!!!! As a non-afrakan you are identifying with a culture not necessarily becoming one with it simply becuz it is not ur roots. its like a wolf that has on a sheep suit tryin to blend it with the flock. of course the malice intent of that is not the point here its just an example.

Ive tried to talk about ethnicity. something that a lot of you here do not STUDY. I think the reason why Valerie and I have such a similar stance on things is becuz we have studied that Black men of the Rastafari movement or the Freedom Fighters. Claiming to know the speeches of HIM cannot do justice to TRULY KNOWING this MOVEMENT. Rasta came before HIM was crowned! you have got to understand what race is, what ethnicity is, what the economic situation is, the political system, what lies are, and what fabrications are. these are the things that have determined the heights that Rastafari surge upwards to. to know the STORY of the Black skin from ANCIENT AFRAKA to modern day diasporic and native afraka give one such a 360 that shows what Rasta is..what it always will be. Again non-afrakans have to understand WHAT THEY ARE NOT. this is not a racist statement. it is fact. becuz u r not black or of the afrakan diaspora, or of the mainland this determines how you interpret things and how you understand things.

what a black/afrakan person understands about Rasta (those who have spiritually awakened the skin and brek out de slave/herd mentality of babylon) is most of the time different to the understanding that most of you have. I am not trying to judge or offend here, I am just makin a general personal observation. But anyways, If you have the mental capacity to ask the right questions and seek the real situation behind the word Rasta then power to you! But being ona computer, talkin about Jah and being one with Creation doesnt cut it. In other words, while many things or different aspects fall under the banner of Rastafari, awakening to certain things like becoming one with the Universe does not mean that one shud chant Rastafari, this is true for anyone.

The earth belongs to itself, we r just one part of it..spiritual realm is really what counts when u look at what we have created by separatin from Jah/Creation, but still all is ONE. all Creation is ONE, the UNIverse is ONE, but when it comes down to us man and woman culture divides us like how the physical and spirit are divided: we know there is to be a connection but sometimes the smoke screen of BS is so thick that we cant just seem to grasp what we know SHOULD BE, and is in fact TANGIBLE.

SO yea again to those who say that the earth belongs to all, yea technically speakin dat is a fact..but see dis global order we got? it doesnt tink so. white supremacy says that the earth belongs to america..and americans are in fact europeans and europeans are in fact the ones who caused this shit for us blacks in the first place. again I am statin fact, not being racist. there is never a doubt that there was prejudice within the black race. come on when isnt that true for anyone? but for one race to have complete dominition over the whole world?! this fact is so powerful that it overrules in my opinion this whole notion of one human race over culture/ethnicity/race. it becomes null and void to say we r all one when 99% of the world dont believe that!

Rastafari for black people is ZION!!! Do you understand what that means?! Its a mental and spiritual liberation becuz we have been able to reclaim SELF on different levels. and by doin this we want repatriation which is the physical reclamation of self. this cant be shared by just anybody...so it can be labelled prejudiced for us to say that anyone else cant really have the identity in our roots..but its also a fact. being in love with the idea of what Rastafari has to offer can cause many problems. But one thing I wil support which ArkI said is that Rastafari is about folowing the example, of not just HIM though, but all the Freedom Fighters and doing Jah works. This is for all to obey and share as ONE. that is how we can all unite. that is Jah intention, but again white supremacy want to see that discredited.

So I say forward unto Zion, take the Sacred Trod to Self..and as our book says Carla, by knowin teh Sacred Self first, all healing of the nation can happen. So for the Black Rastafari Nation I say Bless up for pushing forward these works even though many try to fight us down (becuz we see Jah Light)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EmpressGong! Back on my high horse probably but I likin de view!

[EmpressGong]

another thing,, sorry for my long post first
and second....to understand white supremacy is to realise that it is like a thief in the night...a shadow...it is there but yet still we dont recognise it's presence. and white supremacy is a mentality that manifests in discussions such as this where a person of european decent cannot accept that they have no formal or real title to Rastafari in terms of decent.hence the argument of only one race the human race. Rastafari in terms of experience and story behind skin is what I am focusin on and this is a big part of Rastafari. denyin this again is that mentality. and to even partly contradict what I said earlier, followin the example of HIM cannot be a selected affirmation of what Rastafari is defined to be. that is the mentality again.

however

it starts with skin. roots, culture and decent but doesnt have to end with it.

EmpressGong

[Amandel]

Misgana,

I will be short, it's not an answer to the questions posted, but just a comment on what i noticed in a few posts.

First of all, - i think i mentioned this before but i'll go ahead and repeat myself, stop listening to so much Bob and other artiste and read a few books, You'll be surprised how much valuable information there is to be found in them. And i suggest some of you re-read EmpressGong's posts, don't just read between the lines, because if you read books, you'll come to the (almost) same conclusion.
Put aside your eurocentric (for the most part it's not your fault) visions of "the other" or how things actually are.

Secondly, to the persons that said there's not just one type of racism, you're right, but not in the context you placed it. Racism is a European term therefore it places its focus on European relationships (do some research on that and you'll see what i'm referring to). So whenever someone says Afrocentrism is racist then they are WRONG, same as when someone says CHinese are racist towards Taiwanese, YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN. Reason for this is because Afrocentrisme has nothing to do with placing the other person below you, it's about bettering a black person's situation / life. In the case of the chinese and taiwanese it doesn't have to do with RACE but with CULTURE. It seems as if all white Europeans/ Americans etc (the west) think that other people categorize/ classify their 'opponents' in RACE, the reality is that others (non westerns/ non caucasians) classify their 'opponents' on the basis of their culture.
Judging from what i've read I can say that racism is a european concept and action.
Don't get me wrong there are 'racist of other colors' but are they really racist? I'll leave you with that thought. AND DON'T BOTHER ANSWERING ME IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE YOUR RESEARCH!

Thirdly, since the ORIGINAL TOPIC was about the role of non-blacks in the ras-movement (nevermind commenting of why i typed RAS, you should know what ras means).
Wether people choose for physical or spiritual repatriation, do non-whites feel they will improve the situation in Africa? You'll just make it worse and i'll show you why with an example (since ppl tend to understand things better with an example).
*There's an all black neighbourhood, one white man (middle class) buys one of those broken down houses, rebuilds/fixes it......next thing 3 other whites moves in refurbish the houses and this process goes on...ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE ALREADY? NO, THEN I'LL CONTINUE.....next thing the neighbourhood is half white and half black, so where have the rest of the blacks gone? the answer is to a poorer neighbourhood, house prices gone up too high and the remaining blacks are being threatened economically to leave. In 5 years time there are just 5 black families but they weren't from the original batch, they're new 'middle class black families*.
For those that didn't understand the moral of the story....Do you think you moving to Afreeka will improve the lives of the Afreekans? If you move in you'll just be caught up in the exploiting system that there is, and thanks to you there will be a more visible segregation (and we all knows what that does).
Moving on....

Last and certainly not the least. For those that still don't know it. Yes (i have to admit it) blacks have a identity complex, so how does you (white rasta) moving to the 'islands' or Afreeka is going to improve the mentality of the blacks?
Agains I SUGGEST SOME OF YOU DO SOME SERIOUS READING, so you might then understand why according to some, certain rastas (including myself) are perceived as militant or racist. Remember what they say about the Black Panters and Malcolm X, they were "militant" and " racist" but the truth is you good ole passive Martin L KIng haven't done anything (DO SOME READING).
Since i know a lot of you will be reading i suggest reading BLACK SKIN, WHITE MASKS by FRANTZ FANON. There you will get a picture what you're dealing with as a "non-black" rasta. The rasta movement is not what you think it is, nicely enough you've given it meaning to your life, but YOUR life is not that significant in this circle.

I'll leave it here for now, but i'll be back later....Have a Blessed day all.
Princess_Ez