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Author Topic: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement  (Read 32956 times)

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Amandel

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2005, 01:18:40 PM »

Misgana,

And i'm not apologising for what i wrote, so who ever feels offended, all i can say is DO SOME SERIOUS READING.
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Tottenham

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2005, 08:00:46 PM »

I really agree with Valerie that it is hard to be wholly a part of a religion or culture that is not integrated into ur past.You can appreciate it,but u can neva completely understand all elements of it.
I dont think that excuse should be made for the treatment of Hebrews by Egyptians.It was supremist/wrong but its history.And many were battling for power then.Also it depends on whether u considered the Egptians as black like the inhabitants of other areas of Africa.
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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2005, 05:57:24 AM »

Empresses and prophets ... InI have just read all the reasoning on this page and am sincerely thankful to all the wisdom and knowledge that has been exclaimed, stated, and echoed.

Its brought a couple questions to my mind though...and if those that reasoned on this page particularly can answer it then InI would give endless thanks...

It is seen then, that much of the concept of Rastafari simply is not in the roots of non-African descendents.

It is also seen that the iniversal fight is for equal rights and proper justice.

My question then, my bredrens and my sistrens, is can a non-African descendent righteously and rightfully claim 'Rastafari' while taking a predominant stride?

In different words, can a person of non-African roots truly claim 'Rastafari' without always having to take a step back?

For example - It is clear that ALL righteous people are in the fight for rights and true justice outside this racist shitstem, however, in the retreat to Zion, will the role of the non-African Rasta truly be too far beyond driving the African Rasta to the airport?

And then I ask - how righteous can the non-African Rasta truly be - if at the end of the much neccessary job, the return is being forever bound to the Babylonian land thats been fought against all along, of course until true peace and unsettlement is attained?

InI deeply look forward to reasoning and perspective on this matter.

One
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Valerie

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2005, 09:48:47 AM »

Greetings,

To answer one of the questions of Positive_Vibration:


In different words, can a person of non-African roots truly claim 'Rastafari' without always having to take a step back?

I will say first, that all the posts, particularly the last ones, are clear enough to answer your question. I think. You will have always to step back since you are in a BLACK Movement that have AFRICAN roots and that is AFROCENTRIST.

Secondly, I think that those questions should have been asked to Non-African descendent Rastas.
What I mean is that as African descent Rastas (or Black concious) it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS to ask ourselves if a Non-African Rastas can truly be Rastas. Only YOU can answer this question. And yes, African descent Rastas are also here, on this forum, to spread some KNOWLEDGE of the History of the Movement (the roots that goes far from the day of coronation) since a lot of Non Africans haven't done research and haven't read books.
Do you overstand what I mean?

It is up to YOU to know your place. Don't expect us (African people) to tell you this or that.
What I mean is that only YOU have to know what you are looking for in a Black Movement, what are you looking for in an AFROCENTRIST Caribbean Culture? As an African descent woman, as a great grand-daughter of HAITIAN Neg' Maroons, I KNOW what I am looking for and why I want to become a RASTA Queen.
But I am not here to wonder if a Non-African descent person can claim truly 'Rastafari' without always having to step back. To be honnest, I don't care!
Everybody has to know if they are really constructing their own identity from their own roots, if they are just imitating, or if they are concious that they are identifying but know what they are talking about when they say 'RAS-ta' and know their place as Non African Rastas.

But, what I can tell you is to meditate on what Empressgong said:

Again non-afrakans have to understand WHAT THEY ARE NOT.

I think it sums up everything.

Concerning the role of Non-Africans concerning repatriation and reparations, I think they can support when asked and not take it upon themselves to lead. One has to acknowledge the correct order within the Movement. Becoz' only we, African descents, can govern our own affairs and decide for ourselves.
But once again, it's up to YOU to know what kind of help you can offer, knowing your place as a Non-African. I can't know it for you.

Are you with me so far Bro. Positive-Vibration?

I don't have time to develop more.
Paix et Amour. Valérie.
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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2005, 03:59:17 PM »

Valerie - InI apologize if that question annoyed you. It was simply a question and I'd have accepted answers from anyone, but you yourself said many of the non-African Rastas had not done their proper reading, so what good would it be to pose my question toward a predominantly ignorant group?

Fiyah - Thank you for that.

InI give thanks for both your posts. Much has been learned.

One love
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 04:00:28 PM by Positive_Vibration »
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joeyb

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2005, 04:04:33 PM »

Much wisdom seen - thanks to everyOne.

"It is up to YOU to know your place. Don't expect us (African people) to tell you this or that."

I agree 100% with this, it is up to me (non-African descent Rasta) to figure out my place and I am getting closer to that conclusion every day. But I'm not sure ALL Rastaman I have come across agree with you. Otherwise they would not tell me that I cannot be Rasta. Perhaps I am wrong here, any thoughts?

In my mind I am the nearest to Rasta I can be, because I struggle for justice - but I do not seek a return to Africa (I wasn't stolen from there): and I am apprehensive to adopt the sacred name of Rasta. In my heart, I am Jah's child: thus is my place. I am secure in this knowledge and will live under His guidance.

OneLove
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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2005, 04:13:17 PM »

Quote
I agree 100% with this, it is up to me (non-African descent Rasta) to figure out my place and I am getting closer to that conclusion every day. But I'm not sure ALL Rastaman I have come across agree with you. Otherwise they would not tell me that I cannot be Rasta. Perhaps I am wrong here, any thoughts?


Much raspect.

What are you talking about bredren? Who said that you cannot be Rasta? Perhaps you should reason with these people, but regardlessly, the topic being discussed is the Role Of Non Africans In The Rasta Movement, which is the fight for justice and un-doing that instances of Babylon shitstory has done.

That point you made is a bit irrelevant to this concept.

One love
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joeyb

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2005, 08:54:49 PM »

Sorry for being so unclear - the words to express my thoughts wouldn't form in my mind.

I am talking about those who have said that 'Non-Africans have NO role in the Rasta movement.' I have spoken with I-dren who have said exactly this.
Excuse my obscurity.

OneLove
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EmpressGong

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #98 on: June 28, 2005, 06:20:45 AM »

Bless Up!!!!

I just want to give Ises for the Empresses coming out of the woodworks and posting on this thread. EZ I certainly do look forward to hearing from you sistren! Bless! Valerie..much love that we can reason here with the knowledge gained from diligently diggin into our past. It is indeed necessary for us to know where we come from to know where we stand now, and what/where we can be in the future.

Positive Vibration:
It is seen then, that much of the concept of Rastafari simply is not in the roots of non-African descendents.

I would ask you what is in Rastafari that is a part of the non-African descendants' roots that makes you say MUCH OF THE CONCEPT IS NOT IN THE ROOTS. underlining MUCH. Now I want you to think carefully about why you made this statement and give me the evidence that Rastafari Livity has something -even an inklin- to do with non-Afrakans. Im not sayin yea or neigh just testing u;) I also invite other elders and the well-read posse to give some insight on this too. not a bad thing to discuss briefly.

Secondly:My question then, my bredrens and my sistrens, is can a non-African descendent righteously and rightfully claim 'Rastafari' while taking a predominant stride? In different words, can a person of non-African roots truly claim 'Rastafari' without always having to take a step back?

I dont want to judge or say "this is what PV is saying" but I get this vibe that the white privilege is seeping out. becuz it made you ask this question "without having to take a step back" First I want to say it is high time that babylon step back becuz as Fiyah said, our people had to do it for years. I had to take a step back and let a white girl get in my cab becuz the cab driver refused to take the black girl home! TWICE.and im talkin about a month ago ok? not years ago. Moreover, I say NO and to step WAY WAY back and let us take care of our own! Let us reach out and say this is what help we need and how we want it when we are ready to make that connection! This is the way to break White supremacy down and this is the way to allow the broken to rebuild. But I would say take heed to the blacks to not abuse that power- should we ever gain it -with spite. It would be up to us to then really be righteous and not kick back the oppressor when we get the chance, so I wonder could we really do that and let go of all the animosity?

As for the part of the question that asks if you non-Africans could righteously and rightfully claim Rastafari? I dunno man...I think you can take the stride but "rightfully" and "righteously"? HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? if you can answer this question then you will have your answer. KEEP IN MIND the example that EZ made, read up on what we all said to read up on first...the history, the economics, the politics before the coronation...the beginning. HOW? is it really even possible in this current global system? to that I say no.


I will continue in the next post as this is too long for one post!
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EmpressGong

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #99 on: June 28, 2005, 06:25:49 AM »

Third :
And then I ask - how righteous can the non-African Rasta truly be - if at the end of the much neccessary job, the return is being forever bound to the Babylonian land thats been fought against all along, of course until true peace and unsettlement is attained?

You said "at the end of the much necessary job"...I want to first say that in my heart I feel like some white rastas want think like they are doin the black community "a favour" by wanting to help and "becomin" a rasta too. while both race/economic groups have to change their livity drastically to live under Rasta's banner, the difference between us is that you cannot identify with racial downpression only class. class downpression is harsh becuz it robs one of the basics like education,food and shelter. so yea ethnically whites can feel class downpression but racially I would say no. they are UPPressed if you follow?

so yea you feel it is necessary to help the class downpression which you think leads to freein racial downpression, but is this realy true? are you really able to accomplish your necessary job if movin into the "black" community/territory/camp (whatever!!) can cause tension? We can all be poor but the black will suffer more than the white if the white has some access to power. so to answer your question no you wont be very righteous.and YES u will always be tied to your roots!!

BUT I also want to point out the important mistake you made. It is not the works of the white man/whoever to help the poor black man that should determine your righteousness. I feel as if doin us the favour will determine your (not you personaly PV) worth or identity as a Rasta. and if that is the case then you are seriously misguided. Jah Works is righteous.....praisin Jah, upholding Jah laws. love, raspect,loyalty, positivity,never-doubting the works and wonders of Creation are life's reward, purpose and pleasure. RIghteousness is something for all that exists outside the banner of Rastafari and if one is seeking that oneness, that spiritual connection, that upliftment then seek it with a clean heart, and stay away from the negative, but you do not have to call yourself a Rasta to do this! go work for the UN or something but realise that this Name this title of the Ancients is buried in something that manifests in black liberation and community works but those social aspects are not what define Rastafari completely.

It is good and always wonderful when the pure at heart can come together and love and be and reason as one..this is something I honestly believes happens when all walks of life come together as one under Rastafari...but still the holding of this title is something I cant take lightly and cant be thrown around. Even I as a Black woman do not always want to call myself by thisname simply becuz I cannot determine my own worth! Jah Guide!!!

I hope my responses were clear.I think we should always be wary of the boundaries that exist today to know how to work within or break the limits placed on us or the ones we place on ourselves...hmmm
EmpressGong
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EmpressCarla

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2005, 01:52:22 PM »

Positive_Vibration, I give thanks for your open-mindedness. The mere fact that you are asking questions rather than asserting your rights is progress, in my opinion. I think most of the misunderstanding that takes place is due to the assertion of some of their rights to this or that. As FiyahBun gave with the land example, yes all belongs to Jah. However, in the relative sense, the land is for those who have toiled for it, for those forcefully taken from it. As does Rastafari belong to those whose ancestors suffered for it. I don't think that means that non-Africans cannot be Rasta. For H.I.M. Haile Selassie I and Rasta livity are for all who embrace them. Yet it is imperative that the non-African Rasta overstand the roots.

We're talking about people who suffered and died just for the "right" to stand up and be counted. Rather than living on their knees in submission to a power structure that sought to do nothing but use them for its purposes, they struggled to stand for Jah's purposes. To proclaim their divinity when the world said they were sub-human. Can you even imagine such an existence?

Quote
My question then, my bredrens and my sistrens, is can a non-African descendent righteously and rightfully claim 'Rastafari' while taking a predominant stride?

In different words, can a person of non-African roots truly claim 'Rastafari' without always having to take a step back?


I pose a question to you: Why is it you want to step forward within Rastafari? What can you offer the movement that cannot already be found? I have to say that I find your question problematic. How can you want to come into something in a "predominant stride"? It is this kind of zealousness without wisdom that causes apprehension and mistrust in the first place. Again, what can you offer the movement that is not already there? I don't mean to be insulting, but I would say that the best thing to do would be to step back. Take a back seat for a while, learn the history of the faith you have chosen to claim. What I'd like to see (and this is just my personal opinion), is for non-Africans to stop trying to say Rasta is this or Rasta is that to elder Rastas. Rather, go tell the ignorant of the world, the ones who blindly live under white privilege, the ones who are unjust, go tell them you want justice and equal rights for all...starting with the BLACK MAN! Can you do that? For perhaps that is how you can take your "predominant stride". Don't try to tell Rasta what your rights are. We know that already. Tell others what the rights of ALL are.

Yes, anyone has a "right" to move to Africa. But before you move, how 'bout you burn corruption wherever you are right now. For moving to Africa will do nothing for the justice of the downpressed. You simply become a white man in Africa. But what of those downpressed you left behind? Hmmm?

So do Jah works. That is all that is necessary. And if you don't know what that is, best look to Jah for the answers.

Be blessed.
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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2005, 02:21:35 PM »

Quote
I would ask you what is in Rastafari that is a part of the non-African descendants' roots that makes you say MUCH OF THE CONCEPT IS NOT IN THE ROOTS. underlining MUCH. Now I want you to think carefully about why you made this statement and give me the evidence that Rastafari Livity has something -even an inklin- to do with non-Afrakans. Im not sayin yea or neigh just testing u;)


Seen sistren. And you're right, to do deal entirely with history, (which is very important to present times,) Rastafari is essentially not in non-African roots *at all.*

When InI claim Rastafari humbly InI am dealing with the I of Positive Vibration! Of Ras Jon. It is seen that my ancestors were nasty slave drivers and white supremecists. But InI cannot continue in this way! And am disgusted by this shitstory.

And so as far as what part of Rastafari Livity has to do with non-Africans...I'd say Rastafari *livity* is mainly for all. As livity is simply eating, being, conductucting yourself and living as Jah would and does want us to live.

And no, I was not trying to imply any sort of white rights and it is seen that the people that are being DOWNpressed to this very day must take the leading hand in their own UPrising.

When I claim Rastafari, I claim my love for Jah and my part of fighting in this struggle. Its my intent to break down white supremecy too! And in a slightly humbled down manner, it is my intent to fight for what it is right until Babylon and its wicked ways fall.

Raspect, sistren.

One love


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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2005, 02:33:13 PM »

Quote
Third :
And then I ask - how righteous can the non-African Rasta truly be - if at the end of the much neccessary job, the return is being forever bound to the Babylonian land thats been fought against all along, of course until true peace and unsettlement is attained?

You said "at the end of the much necessary job"...I want to first say that in my heart I feel like some white rastas want think like they are doin the black community "a favour" by wanting to help and "becomin" a rasta too. while both race/economic groups have to change their livity drastically to live under Rasta's banner, the difference between us is that you cannot identify with racial downpression only class. class downpression is harsh becuz it robs one of the basics like education,food and shelter. so yea ethnically whites can feel class downpression but racially I would say no. they are UPPressed if you follow?

so yea you feel it is necessary to help the class downpression which you think leads to freein racial downpression, but is this realy true? are you really able to accomplish your necessary job if movin into the "black" community/territory/camp (whatever!!) can cause tension? We can all be poor but the black will suffer more than the white if the white has some access to power. so to answer your question no you wont be very righteous.and YES u will always be tied to your roots!!

BUT I also want to point out the important mistake you made. It is not the works of the white man/whoever to help the poor black man that should determine your righteousness. I feel as if doin us the favour will determine your (not you personaly PV) worth or identity as a Rasta. and if that is the case then you are seriously misguided. Jah Works is righteous.....praisin Jah, upholding Jah laws. love, raspect,loyalty, positivity,never-doubting the works and wonders of Creation are life's reward, purpose and pleasure. RIghteousness is something for all that exists outside the banner of Rastafari and if one is seeking that oneness, that spiritual connection, that upliftment then seek it with a clean heart, and stay away from the negative, but you do not have to call yourself a Rasta to do this! go work for the UN or something but realise that this Name this title of the Ancients is buried in something that manifests in black liberation and community works but those social aspects are not what define Rastafari completely.

It is good and always wonderful when the pure at heart can come together and love and be and reason as one..this is something I honestly believes happens when all walks of life come together as one under Rastafari...but still the holding of this title is something I cant take lightly and cant be thrown around. Even I as a Black woman do not always want to call myself by thisname simply becuz I cannot determine my own worth! Jah Guide!!!

I hope my responses were clear.I think we should always be wary of the boundaries that exist today to know how to work within or break the limits placed on us or the ones we place on ourselves...hmmm
EmpressGong


Seen. By asking 'how righteously' I was basically questioning how much the non-African Rasta has to humble down in the movement of Rastafari, but all this and more has been answered.

I know and overstand that Rastafari and righteousness itsself is beyond helping the poor black, and its not at all a matter of Rasta identity. InI fight for justice, to end the white supremecy ect because whether you're Budhist, Muslim, Christian whatever ... its wrong.

And I know (and of course always continue learning as does everyone) what Rastafari is outside this one aspect, but I give thanks for that nonetheless.

Much thanks.

One love

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Positive_Vibration

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2005, 02:43:47 PM »

Quote
Positive_Vibration, I give thanks for your open-mindedness. The mere fact that you are asking questions rather than asserting your rights is progress, in my opinion. I think most of the misunderstanding that takes place is due to the assertion of some of their rights to this or that. As FiyahBun gave with the land example, yes all belongs to Jah. However, in the relative sense, the land is for those who have toiled for it, for those forcefully taken from it. As does Rastafari belong to those whose ancestors suffered for it. I don't think that means that non-Africans cannot be Rasta. For H.I.M. Haile Selassie I and Rasta livity are for all who embrace them. Yet it is imperative that the non-African Rasta overstand the roots.

We're talking about people who suffered and died just for the "right" to stand up and be counted. Rather than living on their knees in submission to a power structure that sought to do nothing but use them for its purposes, they struggled to stand for Jah's purposes. To proclaim their divinity when the world said they were sub-human. Can you even imagine such an existence?


I pose a question to you: Why is it you want to step forward within Rastafari? What can you offer the movement that cannot already be found? I have to say that I find your question problematic. How can you want to come into something in a "predominant stride"? It is this kind of zealousness without wisdom that causes apprehension and mistrust in the first place. Again, what can you offer the movement that is not already there? I don't mean to be insulting, but I would say that the best thing to do would be to step back. Take a back seat for a while, learn the history of the faith you have chosen to claim. What I'd like to see (and this is just my personal opinion), is for non-Africans to stop trying to say Rasta is this or Rasta is that to elder Rastas. Rather, go tell the ignorant of the world, the ones who blindly live under white privilege, the ones who are unjust, go tell them you want justice and equal rights for all...starting with the BLACK MAN! Can you do that? For perhaps that is how you can take your "predominant stride". Don't try to tell Rasta what your rights are. We know that already. Tell others what the rights of ALL are.

Yes, anyone has a "right" to move to Africa. But before you move, how 'bout you burn corruption wherever you are right now. For moving to Africa will do nothing for the justice of the downpressed. You simply become a white man in Africa. But what of those downpressed you left behind? Hmmm?

So do Jah works. That is all that is necessary. And if you don't know what that is, best look to Jah for the answers.

Be blessed.


Seen.

InI was not trying to tell <i>anyone</i> what Rasta is, hence most of that post being in question form. It was a seek of guidance from the elders, as I apologize if it gave off any false vibes.

And yes, I know the equal rights and justice must start off for the Blackman. There is no doubt in my mind of that. InI was born in an upper-middle-class suburb where I have some very own peers that are or used to be racist. Of course I know the point is to break that down, and fully agree with the post that said in these times white people are only getting UPpressed, and regardless of my skin tone, I find this wrong and ridicules.

And its seen that the point is to take a step back and do what you can with the ignorant. This is what I do with my music. The only "forward-stepping" I meant would be breaking down the walls of Babylon, ect.

Seen about Africa also.

And yes, I know what the slaves and people of those times and even after those times went through. Of course not first-hand and I'm not claiming any expertise, but I've done research on these times and have a chunk of knowledge on this history, knowing full well how unbelivably brutal it was and how brave-hearted they were to stand up even when it could have meant death.

Much thanks, sistren. Thats a good post.

And InI know and overstand the importance of knowing and accepting your roots.

One love
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ital

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Re: Role Of Non Africans in Rasta Movement
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2005, 03:06:03 PM »

greetings,  are  none  african  people  not  the  creation  of  god  cant  they  choose  to  live  rightiously  as  well,  you  cant  blame  me  for  the  wrongs  that  other  black  men  do,  nither  can  you  blame  the  inocent  whiteman  for  what  the  bad  one  does,  not  every  whiteman  own  slaves  in  the  days  of  slavery  and  meny  die  trying  to  free  slaves  from  slavery  because  they  knew  that  it  was  wrong,  the  rasta  movement  is  about  equal  rights  and  justice  for  all  not  just  some,  and  you  dont  have  to  be  from  africa  to  take  part  in  the  fight  for  what  is  right,  dont  worry  too  much  about  white  racist  power  noting  last  forever  jah  will  take  care  of  them.  one  love  RASTAFARI
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