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Author Topic: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS  (Read 14201 times)

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msgal

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2007, 04:27:34 PM »

So if someone doesn't see things the way you do then they are wrong?
You've researched and know the truth.
If there's only one truth then a lot of us are screwed.
My own opinion is that no one person can comprehend truth completely
They might get bits and pieces but not the entirety of it.
Some of the greatest theological minds in the world spend an entire lifetime
studying the bible and still do not claim to know all truth.
You are a bit arrogant if you think you've accomplished that.
You do present yourself that way in every post you make.
You think you know what 2+2 is, I don't think some of the others
here agree with you. It is their right.
Isn't free will an very important concept in your bible to?
Nothing you've said so far changes my mind or opinion.
Doubt it matters to you but that's not why I said it.


Jah bless
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Jah bless. I and I love you all.

Absolutetruth

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2007, 05:32:13 PM »

Quote
So if someone doesn't see things the way you do then they are wrong?
You've researched and know the truth.
see that?  here's the problem.  you're arguing against something that i didn't even say.  this is what we call a "strawman".  i didn't say that if someone doesn't see things the way i see them then they're wrong.  i never made any absolute statement like that.  i'm wrong on some things, which is why i'm still learning.  i said that in the things that we discussed SO FAR no one has yet DEMONSTRATED to me where i'm wrong in anything.  just bald assertions and arguments against strawmen, as is being done here.
Quote
If there's only one truth then a lot of us are screwed.
exactly, which is why it's so important to have the truth.  see, it's not that the Bible is exclusive and arrogant, and the people that follow it arrogant.  it's that EVERY truth claim (even yours) is exclusive at some point.  so i could similarly say to you that a lot of us who believe as i do are screwed if what you believe is right.
Quote
My own opinion is that no one person can comprehend truth completely
i agree completely.
Quote
They might get bits and pieces but not the entirety of it.
i agree again.  we have fallen, finite minds.
Quote
Some of the greatest theological minds in the world spend an entire lifetime
studying the bible and still do not claim to know all truth.
yep
Quote
You are a bit arrogant if you think you've accomplished that.
You do present yourself that way in every post you make.
more strawmen.  i've done no such thing.  i'm fully convinced of what i believe and i'm sharing that with you guys.  if i'm wrong, please, someone show me exactly how and where.  if not, then maybe you guys should think about what is being said a little more rather than arguing against it simply because you think i'm being "exclusive" or "intollerant" or "arrogant".  
Quote
You think you know what 2+2 is, I don't think some of the others
here agree with you. It is their right.
you know what's ironic?  this whole time you're basically telling me that it's wrong to tell people that their wrong, all the while telling me that I'M WRONG.  so since you feel that it's wrong to say that people are wrong, then aren't you contradicting yourself by telling me that i'm wrong??
Quote
Isn't free will an very important concept in your bible to?
not at all.  man doesn't have a free will.  this is arminian teaching, and it's false.  you've been influenced by false Bible teaching that's very popular today.  Man is in slavery and bondage to sin and death until he's regenerated.  read Ephesians 1 and 2 to see this clearly taught.  seriously, if you wouldn't mind, read those and tell me what you think.  they're not that long.  
Quote
Nothing you've said so far changes my mind or opinion.
this subjective test means nothing, since truth is absolute and transcends whether a person "understands" or not.
Quote
Doubt it matters to you but that's not why I said it.
thanks for the response.  i hope you read the little bit i suggested.  i think you'll find it interesting.  tell me what you think.

thanks.

Blessings,
Absolute
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Ash-Tree

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2007, 05:57:48 PM »

Brothers we should stop the bickering.
Absolute came with his ideas and Beliefs and TREE NATTY fed him fire and wiped clean falseness.

So your "Truth" is no more.

Let him be.
What more can we do?



Ash-Tree
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Ash-Tree

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2007, 06:07:03 PM »

Written by Paul when he was supposedly in jail in Rome.
A man who never met Jesus.
Like Tree Natty Said you are using his writings to back up wat you claim.


1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Ash-Tree
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Oskar

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2007, 07:44:42 PM »

Quote
see that?  here's the problem.
Yea, I see it. You are begging people claiming that "no one has yet DEMONSTRATED to me where i'm wrong in anything." Yet complain when you can't get your head around what you're wrong about.

Quote
since you feel that it's wrong to say that people are wrong, then aren't you contradicting yourself by telling me that i'm wrong??
Not if you ask for it, which you did.
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Absolutetruth

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2007, 07:50:25 PM »

Quote
Written by Paul when he was supposedly in jail in Rome.
A man who never met Jesus.
Like Tree Natty Said you are using his writings to back up wat you claim.


1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Ash-Tree
i can quote other Apostles to back up what i say too.  not just Paul.  and indeed, i have.  

and "a man who never met Jesus"?  have any of you guys actually READ the Bible?  Paul clearly meets the risen Lord after His crucifixion:

Acts 9:3-5
3Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" 5And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

Also see: Acts 22:7, Acts 22:8, and Acts 26:14

Galatians 1:11-17:
11For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.[c] 12For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when he who had set me apart before I was born[d], and who called me by his grace, 16was pleased to reveal his Son to[e] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;[f] 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

Here's Paul's conversion as told in Galatians.  Now you tell me, what in the world could possibly cause such a drastic change in this man so as to go from persecuting and trying to destroy the church of Christ, to becoming one of the Apostles of Christ, to even being persecuted himself, even going so far as to die for his faith in Christ by being beheaded by the sword???  if he knew this was a lie and that he was making all of this stuff up, why would he die for that?  who would die for what they KNOW to be a lie???  the truth is that he was met by the risen Christ, and he was commissioned to be an Apostle for the church.  

this little weak reasoning of him "never meeting Christ" makes no sense in the bigger picture.  you have no idea what you're talking about because you don't know the Bible.  

Blessings,
Absolute


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Absolutetruth

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 07:53:03 PM »

Quote
Quote
see that?  here's the problem.
Yea, I see it. You are begging people claiming that "no one has yet DEMONSTRATED to me where i'm wrong in anything." Yet complain when you can't get your head around what you're wrong about.

Quote
since you feel that it's wrong to say that people are wrong, then aren't you contradicting yourself by telling me that i'm wrong??
Not if you ask for it, which you did.
you give the worst and most uninsightful responses out of anyone here.  i'd quit while i was "ahead" if i were you.  just sit back and learn.  someday you'll be able to contribute meaningfully.  today is not the day though.  

take care.

Blessings,
Absolute
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TREE-NATTY

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2007, 07:58:17 PM »

E.M.HTP!!!

You can't use Paul own books to back-up his claims! LOL! It's like being a witness for yourself! LOL! and paul had many books and the bible but is not mention in any books he didn't write. But he mentions everyone else in the ones he did.

HRU
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Absolutetruth

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2007, 08:20:01 PM »

Quote
E.M.HTP!!!

You can't use Paul own books to back-up his claims! LOL! It's like being a witness for yourself! LOL!
i'm using his death as a witness for the truth here.  does that convince you?  let me ask you:  would you die for something that you KNEW to be a lie, and that you made up yourself???  i'll let you answer that for me.

also, if we can't use Paul's words as testimony, then you can't use Selassie's words as testomony for himself.  or Garvey's words as testimony himself.  or anyone else's words or testimonies.  you don't understand the rules of philosophy and presuppositions.  it's perfectly acceptable to appeal to one's own presupposition in order to support it.    

Quote
and paul had many books and the bible but is not mention in any books he didn't write. But he mentions everyone else in the ones he did.
the rantings of ANOTHER one who knows nothing about the Bible:

2 Peter 3:14-16:
14Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother [size=20]Paul[/size] also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him[/b], 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Peter mentions Paul.  in fact, he mentions Paul's writings as SCRIPTURE.  Now, surely NO ONE HERE would deny that Peter knew Christ.  Peter may have been closer to Christ than anyone.  

It seems as though you're wrong again bredren.  READ and KNOW the Bible next time before attempting to make an argument from it against someone who's familiar with it.  just a little advice.  thanks.

Blessings,
Absolute
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 08:23:57 PM by Absolutetruth »
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EmpressCarla

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Re: FANATICAL CHRISTIANS
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2007, 09:36:51 PM »

Blessings

It seems some of InI need a refresher course on the proper perspective when reasoning. Please check this thread, if you would be so kind:

http://forums.rasta-man.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1158238570/0#0

With regard to the "fanatical christians" mentioned in the original post: it is the fanatical christians that come here who seem to always feel they have the absolute truth. And because of this, they tend to not simply reason their point, but to condescend the reasonings of others also. It is the fanatical christians who can only see the bible as literal, and hold it as their only frame of reference. They may know it backwards and forwards (which is valuable). But if another does not, they find whatever that person is saying to be worthless (which is what blind faith is built upon).

The thing is, the fanatical christian simply cannot see themselves clearly. But as the saying goes, if it looks like a duck...

All are welcome to reason here at Rasta Nick's forum, as long as the reasoning is RASpectable.

InI should ask Iselves, what is the point of our reasoning here? Who is served by it? Both Jesus and Saul/Paul cautioned against being boastful and proud, and against doing things for our own glory and justification rather than to the glory of The Most High. Sadly, it seems the "fanatical christians" follow their god Jesus' admonishments the least.

I am closing this thread, because Nick's original post was sufficient. And also because this thread was a closed one before the upgrade anyway. The last few posts have gotten way off topic. So take it up in another thread...if you must.  ::)

Be blessed
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