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Author Topic: What I find pointless  (Read 4821 times)

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Muslim

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What I find pointless
« on: December 31, 2006, 03:00:47 PM »

I donít believe in apologizing for the faults of peopleís faith. Although I suppose it is a good gesture but it serves no purpose. Whatís done is done. Which is why it is stupid for the pope to apologize for torturing Galileo. Or for the crusades. Because people who did the deed do not live to this day. I would never apologize for anything that Muslims have done in the past. For I it was not me who did it. You donít go up to Jews and demand they apologize for the Massacres done by the Jewish kind Dhu Nuwus. Or for stoning to death early Christians. You donít go up to Hindus and demand that they apologize for the thugee cult. I wouldnít go up to you guys and demand you say your sorry for something a Rasta has done.
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SOTRH

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2006, 04:29:34 PM »

Muslim bro I totally agree but why have you posted this thread?? What made you suddenly think to write this??
Man should not be blamed for his forefathers actions I totally agree, otherwise how can people ever unite and move fwd, but they should remain conscious of the mistakes of their forefathers so they don't re-open old wounds or make the same mistakes again.
Lets face it though most races and religions have at some point persecuted another in some form so we should be careful not to be hypocritical when poining the finger of blame.
One love people move fwd we gotta love ALL our brothers and sisters regardless of the history of their ancestors.
Any man who loves I no matter what colour creed race or sex I will love back, how could I not??!!
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paco

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2006, 07:26:54 PM »

greetings Muslim, i diss-agree with you.

off sub a bit. i highly recommend a dvd by Michael Franti (he's a musician) from us. one of his sayings is 'power to the peaceful'. he went to Iraq, Palestine and Israel-- sang and spoke with tha people. imo MF is a beautiful person. dvd called "I Know I'm Not Alone".
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Muslim

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2006, 10:07:29 PM »

please paco, i do welcome debate, so please. tell me why you diss-agree with me.
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paco

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 04:23:52 AM »

no, no debATE. i reread your post and i was juss being petty-- i apologize

here, as a token of my SINcerity i offer this: http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgie.htm


                                                paco
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african_herbsman

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 03:19:32 PM »

Salaam Alaykoum

Wow paco I never knew bush was so flexible hehehe.

Ma'a Salama
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EmpressCarla

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 04:08:10 PM »

Blessings

LOL! Good one, paco!

It is true that the actual ones who committed certain crimes are no longer here. Yet when their descendents continue to perpetuate certain stereotypes, attitudes and racist practices, it is "stupid" to ignore the truth of the matter.

Many desparately want to believe that there are no race-motivated crimes against humanity occurring today. That is great optimism, but just not reality. Just ask Sean Bell's fiance.  ;)

Or better yet, just watch this clip. Let's see if it's as funny as paco's. Or is it rather insulting? You decide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glKBvcr7nUI

Be blessed
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Muslim

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2007, 05:21:51 PM »

I donít think it was made for racist reasons, it seemed to me more like a tolerance commercial (like one I saw were a Imam, Preacher and a Rabbi have donuts) but hers what I mean when I say I find apologize pointless. I believe that the woman who grabbed her daughter and ran away should apologize. But I donít think that different white person especially someone if it was far in the future when the 3 in the commercial are dead and rotting.
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EmpressCarla

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2007, 06:52:14 PM »

Blessings

I agree that no one should apologize, if they are truly not apologetic.

Tell me Muslim, if I had a grandfather who murdered your grandfather and took his fortune, and directly due to these actions, my grandfather's children and grandchildren were able to advance in terms of better education, inheritance, business properity, social status and experience and myriad other intangible ways that would create pathways to even further increased wealth, and the flip side was your family was made to be looked down upon, denied access to education and denied wealth such that generationally your entire family line suffered profusely, directly because of what the grandparents did, do you believe that the new generation has no accountability?

(Wow, that was one serious run-on sentence.  :-[)

If ones still benefit based on the crimes of their foreparents, and they are aware that their gain was due to theft, is this ok?

Be blessed
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SOTRH

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2007, 08:13:03 PM »

That is a fair point Carla but where do u draw the line ???
If ur grandparents stole my grandparents money then yes I may be a little annoyed to see ur generation still reaping the benifits of the crime. I would think that money really belonged to my family and that would be unfair.
What about in 100 years time our family's have grown and been influenced by outside authorites ur family has taken bad turn, lost all ur money and now living the humble life that I was living 100 years before.
My family has turned things around and is has been subject to a period of fortune and is now flourishing financially.
Would my family still hold the grudge and expect their poorer neighbour to return the old debt from 100 or 200 years before???
My point is this, whilst it is a great notion to say that descendants of the unrichious should return monies or pay for old crimes where will we draw the line? Who will work out what exactly is owed? How much? Of what??? How will all these debts be distrubuted to all the people to whom they are owed??? This is the impossible question it is a logistical nightmare and whilst it is a lovely idea it could never really be acheived. There is not an answer to make everything ok but we can start by being concious of our forefathers crimes and pray that we never have to see it happen again. As far as punishing descendants is concerned that will solve nothing all it will do is start a new problem. We need to move fwd we need to come together and be as 1 not segregate ourselves further. Now is a time for realising mistakes of the past and learning from them not looking for scapegoats to satisfy peoples hatred.
Big Love
Ben :D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 08:13:47 PM by SOTRH »
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EmpressCarla

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2007, 09:51:31 PM »

Blessings

Time is the illusion here. It does not matter how far back we look. And really, I needn't even go back as much as 50 years.

SORTH, do you think any of your questions might not have been asked and answered when restitution was given to the Jews, Japanese, or Native Americans? If it is a logistical nightmare, then wake up and see the double-talk.

If it is such a "lovely idea" why is it that it can never be achieved? Should we not strive for that which is lovely (and right)? And who said anything about "punishing" descendants??? Where did you read "hatred" in what I wrote?? I see a lot of assumptions being made here...no facts, though.

Restoration will never come until the hearts of flesh change. But until that happens, InI should never simply forget. At the same time, InI move forward in love and light (definitely enlightened).

Be blessed
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SOTRH

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2007, 10:32:01 PM »

There was no facts there you are correct! I was merely giving a THEORETICAL answer to your THEORETICAL question and I think that the issue I raised was valid and well thought out. I don't come here to argue I merely say what is in I heart and I certainly don't want to offend.
It seems that you have taken what I said as provocative but actually it was only meant to be realistic.
By the word 'hatred' I think its quite obvious that I was referring to the feeling that people have towards the descendants of people who mistreated others in the past, which is actually the theme of this thread. Surely it is this hatred that drives them to seek physical or financial retribution for these past injustices?
Of course it is a 'lovely idea' and it always will be that is not even in question and I certainly never assumed that you should 'simply forget' infact I think I wrote that we should always 'remain concious'.
Sorry that you seemed to be offended by what I said that is never my intention.
Big Love
Ben   :)
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EmpressCarla

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2007, 10:59:49 PM »

Blessings

Idren, I was neither offended nor provoked by what you wrote. Not in the least, for you wrote nothing offensive. So no worries.

But it is not hatred to expect wrongs to be righted. If that were true, then there would be no need for a judicial system at all. Hatred is an action, not a discussion. Again, when other groups have been violated, restitution was paid in the form of currency, natural resources, sovereignty, etc. Would you consider that hate? If not, then I don't overstand how when an Afrakan person discusses the same, it is viewed as hatred. Perhaps you think we should hate you? Well, it's not about hate. It is about truth. So this is more than a "lovely idea". It is as realistic as you declared your post to be, as there are already examples of it.

As a group, no Afrakan is exacting physical retribution, as you suggest. And no Afrakan is taking what we discuss as rightfully ours. So where does this perception come from? We simply submit the truth. As some say, the truth might be an offense, but it is not a sin.  ;)

You wrote that we need to move forward and to come together as one. I wholeheartedly agree. Yet until the hearts of all flesh are truthful...

Be blessed.

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Muslim

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Re: What I find pointless
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 02:21:44 AM »

Lets back up a little. Empress if your grandfather did that to mine I would expect your grandfather to apologize. What good would your apology be because you had nothing to do with the killing? And know it seems that we are getting more into Race based apologies. But how would you feel Carla, If Someone asked you apologize for something that some Rasta did over 100 years ago (Hypothetically speaking) you would find it kind of stupid right?
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