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Author Topic: reincarnation  (Read 3266 times)

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John

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reincarnation
« on: April 14, 2008, 04:57:29 PM »

i have heard on many occasions that rastas see HIM as the reincarnation of jesus christ. if this is so then why do rastas see HIM as God and not as the son of God, because jesus was the son of god and HIM is the reincarnation of jesus christ.
sorry if this question is offensive to anyone or is commonly asked
thanks
john
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EmpressCarla

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Re: reincarnation
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 01:09:05 AM »

Blessings

i have heard on many occasions that rastas see HIM as the reincarnation of jesus christ. if this is so then why do rastas see HIM as God and not as the son of God, because jesus was the son of god and HIM is the reincarnation of jesus christ.
sorry if this question is offensive to anyone or is commonly asked
thanks
john

Further research will show you that various Rasta mansions view HIM differently. Some see HIM as the returned Christ, others as Christ in His Kingly Character (though still Yeshua/Jesus). Yet others still see HIM as Father Jah. So it is only some Rastafari people who view HIM as Jesus reincarnated.

I personally Ilieve that Christ is not one single person but Spirit. Even the scriptures say that God is a Spirit and those that worship him must worship in Spirit and in Truth. Yet the Spirit is only made known (manifest) via Flesh. Thus we can only know the Divine in a relative sense...experientially. However ones see His Majesty, if it helps them to see Christ, and subsequently, the Christ within, the Amen to it!

One Love Still

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moses

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Re: reincarnation
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 05:09:20 PM »

I personally Ilieve that Christ is not one single person but Spirit. Even the scriptures say that God is a Spirit and those that worship him must worship in Spirit and in Truth
Quote

Amen to this !
Blessed love One and All
^^^

We were talking as to which word the word 'ism' in 'bismillah' is connected. In this regard there are several possibilities as I have mentioned.   

The Creator and the Created

We cannot understand certain questions in this regard unless we know what sort of relationship there exists between Allah and the creation. We talk about this relationship either parrot-like and repeat some set words, or occasionally in addition to that advance some arguments also. A stage higher than this is the privilege of some other people. Anyhow the relationship between Allah and the creation is not of the sort that exists, for example, between father and son, that is between two things existing independently but related to each other. The sun and its rays are an example of a closer relationship. In this case also the sun and its rays are two different things, each having a separate existence to some extent. Man and his mental and physical faculties are an example of another kind of relationship. Even in this case man and his faculties are not identical, though they are closely related. Unlike all these examples, the relationship between the existing things and Allah, Who is the source of their existence, is of quite a different kind and cannot be compared to any of the relationships mentioned above. At several places in the Qur'an and the traditions the relationship between Allah and His creation has been described as Allah's glory. The Qur'an says: When his Lord revealed His glory to the mountain. (Surah al-A'raf, 7:143).

There is a sentence in the Samat Supplication which says:

'By the light of Your glory You revealed to the mountain and thus sent it down crashing…’

At another place the Qur'an says: Allah takes away the souls at the times of their death. (Surah az-Zumar, 39:42) while it is known that taking away the souls is the job of the Death Angel. If somebody kills a person, in that case also it is said that he has put him to death. At another place the Qur'an says: You did not throw when you threw (the pebbles), but Allah threw. (Surah al-Anfal, 8:17) All this is the description of a light and a glory. If we ponder over this concept, certain questions occur to our mind.

 

Meanings of Al-Hamd

We said earlier that the first possibility about the definite article in al-Hamdu is that it might be denoting comprehensiveness. In that case hamd (praise) would mean all praises, and the word 'hamd' as well as the word, 'ism' will have a sense of multitude. From this point of view 'al-hamdu lillahi' would mean that every praise that is made is that of Allah, for it is always the praise of some aspect of His manifestation or glory. The sun manifests itself in its rays. Man is manifested in his seeing and hearing faculties. Allah manifests Himself far more clearly in every creation of His. Therefore, when anything is praised actually a manifestation of Allah's glory is praised. As all the existing things are the signs of Allah, they are His names. According to the second possibility we mentioned, the meaning would be diametrically different, and 'al-hamdu lillahi' would signify that no praise made by any praiser was that of Allah, although in this case also His glory is revealed in all the objects which are praised. But our praise cannot be absolute, nor are we capable of praising the Absolute Being.

Anyhow, as all pluralities are lost and absorbed in the unity of the Absolute Being, it may be said that from one angle even in this case it is the Absolute Being that is praised. The only difference is of the angle from which you look at this issue. If you look at it from the angle of plurality, then every praise would be that of Allah, every existing thing would be His name and every name would be different from other names. According to this possibility the meaning of bismillah will be different from its meaning according to the other possibility. The main feature of this possibility is that a sense of numerousness is implied in the conception of 'ism' or name. Allah is the name in which the stage of multitude and detail is taken into consideration. This name is the 'Exalted Name' in which Allah's glory is revealed.

 

Divine Glory in Everything

The glory of Allah's Exalted Name is revealed in everything. Allah's name Rahman (Beneficent) is the reflection of His beneficence in the state of action and His name Rahim (Merciful) is the reflection of His mercy in the state of action. The same applies to 'rabbil 'alamin' (Lord of the Universe), 'iyyaka na'budu' (You we worship) etc. According to the second possibility, hamd (praise) in 'al-hamdu lillah' signifies absolute and unqualified praise. In this case the conception of Allah, Rahman and Rahim will also be a little different. According to the first possibility 'ism' (name) means every existing thing with reference to its function. In other words, as the function of anything changes, it becomes a different ‘ism’ or name. But according to the second possibility 'hamd' in 'al-hamdu lillah' signifies unqualified and absolute ‘hamd’ with the names of Allah, Rahman and Rahim.

Allah alone can perform such a ‘hamd’ or praise and He does so with a name that is the name of the manifestation of His glory at the stage of self. In other words, He praises Himself with some of His names at this stage. Allah is the comprehensive name at the stage of self, not at the stage of manifestation. Allah's every name at this stage is His glory. Rahman (Munificent) is the name of His munificence at the stage of self. Rahim (Merciful) is the name of His mercy at the stage of self. The same is the case with such other names as Rab (Sustainer) etc. These conceptions can be proved by means of higher philosophy which is different from commonly known ordinary philosophy. But the case of the holy men, the friends of Allah is quite different. They have perceived and grasped these things by traversing the stages of spiritual journey.

 

Prophets' Observations and Experiences

The holy men cannot tell others what they see. Even in the Holy Qur'an many sublime truths have been mentioned in a simplified and diluted form so that they may be communicated even to the ordinary people not yet free from their low and base desires. In this respect the hands of the Holy Prophet himself were tied. He was not allowed to explain the truths to the people in clear terms and therefore he stated the truths in a weakened form. The Qur'an has many degrees of meanings and has been revealed in 70 or 70,000 layers. Having been reduced in intensity in each layer it has come to us in a form which we may be able to understand with our limited intellect.

Telling us about Himself Allah says: Will they not regard the camels how they have been created? (Surah al-Ghashiya, 88:17)

It is our bad luck that while describing lower creations like sun, sky, earth and man, the Prophets felt that there was a knot in their tongue and that they could not express the truth in clear words: O my Lord! Open my chest for me; make the matter easy and untie the knot in my tongue. (Surah Taha, 20:25)

Other Prophets also had knots in their tongues as well as their hearts, and for that reason they could not express the truths exactly as they perceived them. They tried to a certain extent explain them to us through examples and illustrations. When an example of camel is used to explain to us the existence of Allah, it should not be difficult to understand where we stand. In fact we are no better than animals, and as such the knowledge we can obtain must be very defective.

As for the Prophets the Qur'an says at one place: And when his Lord revealed His glory to the mountain, He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless (Surah al-A'raf, 7:143). When Allah imparted special spiritual training to Moses he said to Allah: 'My lord, let me see you.' Obviously an eminent Prophet cannot ask for seeing Allah with his physical eyes. Therefore his request must have been for a kind of seeing appropriate to the seer and the object to be seen. But even this kind of seeing was not possible, Moses said to Allah: 'My Lord! Let me see you.' The answer was: 'you will not see Me.' Allah further said: 'But gaze upon the mountain.’ What is meant by the mountain here? Does it signify Mount Sinai? Was it that the glory that could not be revealed to Moses, could be revealed to this mountain? If some other people had been present at the Mount Sinai at that time, could they also see the revelation of Allah's glory? The sentence, 'Gaze upon the mountain' implies a promise. Allah said: 'You cannot see Me. But gaze upon the mountain. If it stands still in its place, then you will see Me.' (Surah al-A'raf, 7:143) There is a possibility that the mountain here might have meant the remnant of egoism still left in Moses. As the result of the revelation of glory the mountain was smashed. In other words egoism of Moses was completely done away with. 'And Moses fell down senseless.' That means that Moses reached the stage of completely passing away of his human attributes.

What happened to Moses is a story for us, but for the Prophets it is an experience. This experience has been narrated to us in the form of a story because we are not yet free from egoism. The mention of the mountain or the Mount Sinai is only for our sake.

 

Meaning of Glory

People like us think that the glory revealed to Prophet Moses was a light seen by him. It might have been seen by others too. What a novel idea! As if it was a light that could be seen by everybody. Jibra'il (Gabriel), - the Holy Ghost used to recite the Qur'an before the Holy Prophet. Could others hear him? We do not have the slightest idea of the reality and our knowledge is confined to hearsay.

The Prophets can be compared to a person who saw a dream or witnessed something, but is unable to describe what he saw and others are also not fit to understand what he says. The same is the case with the Prophets. Neither they can describe what they see, nor can we understand what they say. No doubt the Prophets have said something, but we can understand only that which is comprehensible to us. The Qur'an contains everything. It has the rules of law as well as the stories, to the underlying idea of which we do not have access, but we can understand what they apparently mean. There are certain things in the Qur'an by which everybody can be benefited to some extent, but in the real sense the Holy Qur'an could be understood only by him to whom it was addressed. Of course those Holy men who were either trained and instructed by the Holy Prophet direct or later imbibed his teachings, also understand the Qur'an.

Through the Holy Ghost the Qur'an was revealed to the heart of the Holy Prophet. The Qur'an itself says: The Holy Ghost descended with it on your heart (Surah ash-Shu'ra, 26:193)

The Qur'an was revealed many a time and each time it was revealed in a more diluted form. The Qur'an says: We revealed it on the Night of Power. (Surah al-Qadr, 97:1). On each Night of Power the same glory is revealed, but on a reduced scale.

In short the Qur'an was revealed to the heart of the Holy Prophet many a time. It was revealed in stages, grades and layers till it finally assumed the form of words.
^^^
Source http://www.al-islam.org/lwm/khumayni_3.htm

Understanding Worshipping an Praises

JAH Bless

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If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love + If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love = I am nothing. 1 Corinth 13

John

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Re: reincarnation
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 01:28:13 AM »

thankyou both for your replies this helped a great deal
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Knowledge

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Re: reincarnation
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 10:57:07 AM »

i have heard on many occasions that rastas see HIM as the reincarnation of jesus christ. if this is so then why do rastas see HIM as God and not as the son of God, because jesus was the son of god and HIM is the reincarnation of jesus christ.
sorry if this question is offensive to anyone or is commonly asked
thanks
john

How can H.I.M. be a reincarnation of Jesus?
Notwithstanding that there is no historical/factual record of Jesus, How can H.I.M be of the lineage of Jesus, when; even based upon the
biblical tale, Jesus didn't have any offspring and therefore his line would have died out with him!

How is Jesus the son of God!
Every person throughout history has a mother and father, H.I.M. being no different.The bible states that Jesus is supposed to be an immaculate conception (Nonsense).  But for the purpose of the reasoning, lets accept this myth as a fact. Where it falls down; is that according to the story Jesus, he had several siblings (brother and sisters )including James (the Just). So how does that work? If this woman Mary had Jesus by unearthly means, then how is it that she has several more children which were all conceived in the usual manner to Joseph?

I doubt if anyone today would be accepting that their woman became pregnant  under those circumstances!

Common sense ought to show people that what is being impressed upon them is not right!

Knowledge,
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