Rasta Nicks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

No news is good news!

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Gifts of Jah  (Read 4293 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ras I

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 236
  • At Least, I Am; At Most, I Am.
    • MySpace
Gifts of Jah
« on: July 09, 2008, 07:06:39 AM »

I recently chatted with Nepsis and it came up that some of the things I say are perceived of as "ungrateful" and "unethical." I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, and will continue to work with being more sensitive in my posts. At the end of the talk Nepsis requested that I post it as he will most likely forget it. I'm not sure if he meant the talk or a generalization of what we talked about, so I have decided to post the chat.

*Note: If Nepsis tells me he did not mean for the chat to be posted I will delete it as soon as I know this.

[Nepsis] 1:15 am: greetings
[Roots_Deep] 1:15 am: Hey there.
[Roots_Deep] 1:15 am: I'm gonna be slow for a sec cause I'm multitasking.

[Nepsis] 1:16 am: that would make you fast then because your doing multiple things at once
[Roots_Deep] 1:16 am: I suppose hehe.
[Nepsis] 1:17 am: I don't remember seeing anything by the I here
[Roots_Deep] 1:19 am: My forum name shows up as Ras I.
[Nepsis] 1:19 am: Oh, hello Ras I
[Roots_Deep] 1:19 am: Hello
[Roots_Deep] 1:20 am: Anything you're interested in on the forums?
[Nepsis] 1:20 am: many things
[Roots_Deep] 1:20 am: Let's herre it.
[Nepsis] 1:21 am: I dont accept the assumption that things we perceive do not exist
[Nepsis] 1:21 am: such as body
[Nepsis] 1:22 am: and I think all these things are created gifts

[Roots_Deep] 1:22 am: Fair enough. I'm pretty sure that's a popular standpoint.
[Roots_Deep] 1:23 am: Do you mind if I ask questions to better understand why?

[Nepsis] 1:23 am: of course not, that is why I was willing to mention it in the first place
[Roots_Deep] 1:24 am: Is the body what you are, and the world a gift to it? Or is the body apart of the gift(s)?
[Nepsis] 1:24 am: the body is created.  all creation is a gift
[Nepsis] 1:25 am: I find the teachings Ras I presented as being unethical and ungrateful

[Roots_Deep] 1:26 am: I see.
[Roots_Deep] 1:26 am: If the body is a creation and all creation is a gift, are you a gift or is the gift for you?

[Nepsis] 1:26 am: I choose to pursue meaning in the things I see, and use the knowledge to better the I's
[Nepsis] 1:28 am: I am a gift and one who receives a gift, and one who returns gift without end because there is no end to perfection

[Roots_Deep] 1:28 am: Are all gifts perfect, with no end?
[Nepsis] 1:29 am: gifts are perfecting
[Roots_Deep] 1:30 am: If you are a body, how do you return gifts without end? If you give gifts perfectly, why can you not receive them so?
[Nepsis] 1:33 am: I don't know because I am not a body.  The body is I, but I am not a body.  The first step for you to return gifts is not deny them.  Do you
truly give gifts perfectly?  How would you konw if you can not receive them perfectly?

[Nepsis] 1:34 am: That's enough
[Roots_Deep] 1:34 am: I'm sorry.
[Nepsis] 1:35 am: thanks for the introduction
[Roots_Deep] 1:36 am: Perhaps you can show me what you know by asking me questions. I will do my best not to offend.
[Roots_Deep] 1:37 am: Because perhaps I went too far.

[Nepsis] 1:37 am: Im not offended, Im happy that I could say what I think without posting a longer explanatory post
[Roots_Deep] 1:39 am: I would like you to see in me that I do not belittle creation, I simply believe it is Eternal.
[Nepsis] 1:41 am: yes I do recall seeing that facet in other posts
[Roots_Deep] 1:43 am: Therefore I see that if I perceive something as not eternal, indeed anything within perception, I have belittled Jah by believing that there is
existence that is not as He. For He gives perfectly, and therefore all is as He but for that He is the Father; He is Perfect Creator of Perfect Creation.

[Roots_Deep] 1:43 am: But knowing that it is therefore impossible to belittle Jah, and only by making the unreal real to myself have I conceived of this as
possible.
[Roots_Deep] 1:45 am: Because Jah is Whole, no-thing can Exist that is not as Him, because he gives Perfectly.

[Nepsis] 1:45 am: I will take time on these things
[Roots_Deep] 1:47 am: I see it as difficult until it is understood that an attack on Jah is not possible in Reality. Something I tried to convey in posts.
[Nepsis] 1:47 am: it is time for rest.  Thanks again
[Nepsis] 1:47 am: I agree with that

[Roots_Deep] 1:48 am: Thank you for the talk.
[Nepsis] 1:51 am: I wont remember this, perhaps you might post it in the forum?
[Nepsis] 1:51 am: goodnight

[Roots_Deep] 1:51 am: The whole chat?
[Rasta Chat]: Nepsis has left at 1:51 am
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 07:13:44 AM by Ras I »
Logged

Nepsis

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 03:39:27 PM »

I'm ok with the whole chat being posted.  Thanks for the consideration about that.  I would only add that what I shared was a response to some of the things in the "Reality and Truth" thread.  I should have mentioned that in the chat.

Grace and Blessings
Logged

Ras I

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 236
  • At Least, I Am; At Most, I Am.
    • MySpace
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 05:52:17 PM »

I will also note that I have not meant to say that there is not meaning to be found in the things we perceive. On the contrary, the the world of form is completely symbolic by the very definition of the word.
Logged

I ELIJAH I

  • Veteran User
  • *****
  • Karma: 15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2423
  • Its a Foolish Dog That Bark at a Flying Bird
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 06:42:15 PM »

The kingdom of JAH is of imperceptible form.
Logged
Fear the terrible g-d of Israel.

Nepsis

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 07:46:28 PM »


[Roots_Deep] 1:43 am: Therefore I see that if I perceive something as not eternal, indeed anything within perception, I have belittled Jah by believing that there is
existence that is not as He. For He gives perfectly, and therefore all is as He but for that He is the Father; He is Perfect Creator of Perfect Creation.

[Roots_Deep] 1:43 am: But knowing that it is therefore impossible to belittle Jah, and only by making the unreal real to myself have I conceived of this as
possible.
[Roots_Deep] 1:45 am: Because Jah is Whole, no-thing can Exist that is not as Him, because he gives Perfectly.

So basically, what is being said here is Jah cannot create something from nothing, and therefore everything I see is eternal and equal to Jah.  I guess I dont understand, because how can there be a gift if Jah cannot create something from nothing? 

I see mankind possessing a special gift of spirit that distinguishes us from other things that we participate in bodily.  The meanings of creation are gifts given to draw us created-out of-nothing-beings towards our creator.  This reality of eternal meanings mediated to us through creation through our own spiritual gift is by example of His Imperial Majesty, Ras Tafari.  It is in the will of the creator that we are established as and called to be Kings and Priests.  Noble ras and brahman.   Also, as exemplified by Ras Tafari culture.  With all this emphasis on the Davidic Ras lineage, it would help us to remember that the Kebra Negast, the tradition of the Kings, does not start the delineation from Solomon - Sheba, but from our most ancient ancestors the first King and Queen.  This is the inheritence of all.

Nature, by the Wisdom of God, is repititious and self-regenerating, one way the creation reflects the Eternal One that transcends it.  We stand "above" it, as Kings and Queens, to know it, and transform it, as we are nature spirit-inserted.  So we are body and spirit and consciouness all interpenetrating each other without division yet bridging altogether as proper to our priesthood and royal position.  Therefore I embrace the noble calling of Kinghood and Priesthood that is clearly revealed in Ras Tafari.  I also recognize the will within, a gift, is acting according to plan when it is moving towards the kingdom, which is eternal perfection which is Jah as we see in his energy that permeates all things.  I should mention that one problem we face is confusing our I with the eternal I am.  Each created ones sharing in this very kingly and priestly existence are never beyond being "the I" that comes as gift by way of the transcendent Eternal One.  I do not confuse myself with the Eternal Father with the highest and only eternal holy name.  So it is that I say give thanks, receive the gift of creation and kill the false I within and allow Christ to be the only I. 

Act upon creation as Kings and Queens and it is uplifted out of the repitition (which is in glory) to new heights (to glory).  From glory to glory.  Similar to the work of a gardener that prunes, tops and directs in order for a fruit tree to take a more fruitful existence stemming from its created essence.  Existence that is not as He but yet by His eternal energy moves eternally toward and in Him from glory to glory cannot diminish Him whatsoever.
Logged

Ras I

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 236
  • At Least, I Am; At Most, I Am.
    • MySpace
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 12:31:47 AM »

"I guess I dont understand, because how can there be a gift if Jah cannot create something from nothing?"

That is the confusion of a world trying to prove that nothing is everything. Jah gives of himself fully, therefore Jah creates All from All as He is Whole. As you were in the beginning, so shall you be in the end. You can believe that you came from nothing, but this will only cause you to view the will of Jah as fearful. As you had no beginning in Eternity, the "beginning" is then "before" the start of the belief in illusion. So in the end of believing this as real for yourself you will be as you always were, Eternal. We know where we're going; we know where we're from. Even by your own logic, the worldly inheritance of all is a goal towards it's own end. The nature of the world cannot be the nature of the Kingdom, because regeneration implies loss and re-gain. But your Will will always be of His laws because no matter how disociated from the Kindom we convince ourselves we are, we did not create our-self and therefore are only bound to the laws of Eternal Creation.

Therefore the following quote has a natural conversion: "I also recognize the will within, a gift, is acting according to plan when it is moving towards the kingdom, which is eternal perfection which is Jah as we see in his energy that permeates all things."

It becomes: I recognize my Will, a gift, cannot act completely out of accord with Jah who gave it completely. It is inevitable that I must move towards the Kindgom, which is Eternal and Perfect as Jah which I recognize in Spirit which is Reality because I have never Truly gone from It.

Please realize how many times you have contradicted yourself in the following sequence. I mean no disrespect; I could not say this if I have not contradicted myself.

"I should mention that one problem we face is confusing our I with the eternal I am.  Each created ones sharing in this very kingly and priestly existence are never beyond being "the I" that comes as gift by way of the transcendent Eternal One.  I do not confuse myself with the Eternal Father with the highest and only eternal holy name.  So it is that I say give thanks, receive the gift of creation and kill the false I within and allow Christ to be the only I."

Jah is Eternity; nothing can move towards him eternally and never be with him because Eternity and nothing/never do not exist side by side because Eternity is Whole. Therefore Eternity cannot be diminished as it Is because it is Whole; We do not move toward it because We can not be away from it. Jah would not will you away from Him, but he would not limit your Will to believe that you could be away from Him anymore than He would will limits on Himself, because he gives Perfectly.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:40:17 AM by Ras I »
Logged

Nepsis

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 03:54:37 PM »

Selaam, the respect is mutual, I've taken no offense at anything in this exchange.  Perceptions of offense are possibly inner turmoil.  There is no similitude between creator and creation.  The essence of Jah is incomprehensible to us.  Our words no matter how useful and corrective will fall short.  I have already offered the same stand above, so at this point I think there is nowhere else for this thread to go beyond what I already shared. 
Thanks and Blessings

Also brother Surfmon, much of my above was a continuation of our reasoning.

The Lord's blessing upon us all.
Logged

natty threads

  • Senior User
  • ****
  • Karma: 11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 09:22:55 PM »

I've been thinking about this.

I agree, Nepsis, that this philosophy, when allowed to dominate and not properly tempered with the equal and opposite does indeed belittle the gifts of God. It requires a fundamental disregard of biblical thought, which, of course, would not work at all for either of us.

In the sense that God is not contained by the space-time continuum, all is One and we are all just imaginings.
In the sense that God exists and does create and that all things are possible with God, the Creation does indeed exist.

If this were all imaginary, we wouldn't be exhorted to Love one another, we wouldn't be exhorted to spread the Good News.

The One gave birth to the Two, the Two to the Three, and the Three to the Ten Thousand Things (which rise and fall in rhythm). I don't see a conflict between this and biblical thought.

Also, Ras I, you don't allow that opposites can co-exist, which in my opinion limits the mind in a very constraining way to strict Aristotelian syllogisms. That's great for western logic but not for finding truth.

By pushing a thought or thing too hard the opposite state is brought about. This moment of transformation to the opposite is the Tao.

It's like when you push the same poles of magnets together and one suddenly flips so they can align. That's what my brain feels like when it encompasses opposites.

So, not only is eternal timeless God one and all of this isn't real, this is all real and we are special creation of a Loving God.

Do not be constrained by Aristotelian logic. Do not be afraid to believe God loves you, personally.

Do not be afraid to believe that opposite states coexist. By refusing to believe half of a reality- the opposite of what you believe- you force that which you do not believe to exist.

Bless up!
Jah Love.

Logged

I ELIJAH I

  • Veteran User
  • *****
  • Karma: 15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2423
  • Its a Foolish Dog That Bark at a Flying Bird
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 10:24:45 PM »

Israelites indeed.
Logged
Fear the terrible g-d of Israel.

Ras I

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 236
  • At Least, I Am; At Most, I Am.
    • MySpace
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 11:41:36 PM »

Natty Threads I have not said we are imaginary, I have said we have believed we are what we are not. Also I have said that only Truth exists, which is reality; can the opposite of reality be real? You can only convince yourself so, and seeing as all will is equal I do not mean to belittle your right to do so. Also I have not said that Jah does not love, in any way. Jah's Love is His Perfect Creation. One Love is inevitable. Opposition is the foundation of destruction, something that does not exist within Jah. To believe opposition is of Jah is to regard Wholeness impossibly, and therefore to view Jah as incomplete. What Jah Creates cannot be belittled because nothing else exists; no matter how you misconstrue what I say, you can still know this to be true. Taoism says that Tao is older than Jah and nothing gave birth to it. I do not judge the belief in this, but I will say it contradicts your own message.


"By pushing a thought or thing too hard the opposite state is brought about. This moment of transformation to the opposite is the Tao."

This is exactly the process of belief in illusion. By pushing a thought too hard we have made it seem real, but we are the mind that thought it, and complete-not contained in part within it. No matter how deeply you believe you have offended Jah by making the separation real to yourself, it is impossible to offend Reality with the unreal.

I will say again that I have neither said that Jah did not Create Reality, nor have I said that he does not Love in any way; He loves All because this is how he Created All.

I will say again, also, that Reality is Truth and there is no opposite of Reality.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:44:31 PM by Ras I »
Logged

I ELIJAH I

  • Veteran User
  • *****
  • Karma: 15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2423
  • Its a Foolish Dog That Bark at a Flying Bird
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 07:50:53 AM »

I have not said we are imaginary, I have said we have believed we are what we are not. Also I have said that only Truth exists, which is reality; can the opposite of reality be real?

It is as real as I and I make it seeing as there are things to stand for. If only for my satisfaction in the concepts impossibility.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 08:04:15 AM by I ELIJAH I »
Logged
Fear the terrible g-d of Israel.

Nepsis

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 03:45:09 PM »

I agree, Nepsis, that this philosophy, when allowed to dominate and not properly tempered with the equal and opposite does indeed belittle the gifts of God. It requires a fundamental disregard of biblical thought, which, of course, would not work at all for either of us.
Greetings Natty Threads,
Since I said nothing of the sort, and it's well known that I accept the orthodox faith, this agreement is not with me.  "Biblical thought", whatever it may have been, is an idea for hyper individuals and tyrants.  Also, the Tao is the Son of the Father, eternally begotten before creation, by whom all things were made.  Opposite is a category derived from creation.  There are only opposites as long as the Father wills since there is no true opposition to Him.
Blessings
Logged

Ras I

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 236
  • At Least, I Am; At Most, I Am.
    • MySpace
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 05:43:13 PM »

Seeing as there is no True opposition in Jah, and He gives Perfectly, and All is of Jah, could it be then that opposition only seems to be our reality?
Posted on: July 12, 2008, 12:21:19 pm
It is as real as I and I make it seeing as there are things to stand for. If only for my satisfaction in the concepts impossibility.

Right on.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 05:47:06 PM by Ras I »
Logged

I ELIJAH I

  • Veteran User
  • *****
  • Karma: 15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2423
  • Its a Foolish Dog That Bark at a Flying Bird
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2008, 08:32:56 PM »

Of course it is ours! As the opposition must of have "get a beating" as dem say, that becomes its real existence. Which is also why JAH is called "terrible". It exists through destruction.
Logged
Fear the terrible g-d of Israel.

Nepsis

  • Full User
  • ***
  • Karma: 16
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 229
Re: Gifts of Jah
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2008, 09:00:34 PM »

Yes opposition is allowed to exist so that we may be purified
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
 

Page created in 0.097 seconds with 21 queries.