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Author Topic: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship  (Read 22990 times)

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Nepsis

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Exodus 30:34-38
And the Lord said to Moses, "Take sweet spices, stacte and onycha and sweet galbanum, and pure frankincense, there shall be equal amounts of each.  You shall make of these perfumed incense, a compound according to the art of the perfumer, mixed, pure, and holy. And you shall beat some of it very fine and put some of it before the testimonies in the tabernacle of testimony, where I will make Myself known to you.  It shall not make any for yourselves according to this composition.  It shall be to you a holy thing for the Lord.  Whoever makes any like it to smell it, he shall be cut off from his people."

Here is a scientific article on the psychoactive properties of frankincense, a component of temple incense in Exodus, and also filling temples of all sorts everywhere.  I think "emotional regulation" essentially means anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects:

Quote
Incensole acetate, an incense component, elicits psychoactivity by activating TRPV3 channels in the brain
Arieh Moussaieff, Neta Rimmerman, Tatiana Bregman, Alex Straiker, Christian C. Felder, Shai Shoham, Yoel Kashman, Susan M. Huang, Hyosang Lee, Esther Shohami, Ken Mackie, Michael J. Caterina, J. Michael Walker, Ester Fride, and Raphael Mechoulam

E-mail contact: arieh@weizmann.ac.il

Burning of Boswellia resin as incense has been part of religious and cultural ceremonies for millennia and is believed to contribute to the spiritual exaltation associated with such events. Transient receptor potential vanilloid (TRPV) 3 is an ion channel implicated in the perception of warmth in the skin. TRPV3 mRNA has also been found in neurons throughout the brain; however, the role of TRPV3 channels there remains unknown. Here we show that incensole acetate (IA), a Boswellia resin constituent, is a potent TRPV3 agonist that causes anxiolytic-like and antidepressive-like behavioral effects in wild-type (WT) mice with concomitant changes in c-Fos activation in the brain. These behavioral effects were not noted in TRPV3-/- mice, suggesting that they are mediated via TRPV3 channels. IA activated TRPV3 channels stably expressed in HEK293 cells and in keratinocytes from TRPV3+/+ mice. It had no effect on keratinocytes from TRPV3-/- mice and showed modest or no effect on TRPV1, TRPV2, and TRPV4, as well as on 24 other receptors, ion channels, and transport proteins. Our results imply that TRPV3 channels in the brain may play a role in emotional regulation. Furthermore, the biochemical and pharmacological effects of IA may provide a biological basis for deeply rooted cultural and religious traditions.ŚMoussaieff, A., Rimmerman, N., Bregman, T., Straiker, A., Felder, C. C., Shoham, S., Kashman, Y., Huang, S. M., Lee, H., Shohami, E., Mackie, K., Caterina, M. J., Walker, J. M., Fride, E., Mechoulam, R. Incensole acetate, an incense component, elicits psychoactivity by activating TRPV3 channels in the brain.

For further reading Frankincense and Mirth:
Is that psychoactive smoke wafting through the pews?


This destroys certain religious arguments against the use of other psychoactive herbs because they have "mind altering" effects.

Give thanks for mediation of the Most High in creation
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 05:58:19 PM »

It shall not make any for yourselves according to this composition.  It shall be to you a holy thing for the Lord.  Whoever makes any like it to smell it, he shall be cut off from his people."


You would have to be in an altered state of mind to believe this is God speaking...lol. Man made stories are funny.

This destroys certain religious arguments against the use of other psychoactive herbs because they have "mind altering" effects. Religion itself is one big argument so what can they say.


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Nepsis

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 07:52:01 PM »

You would have to be in an altered state of mind to believe this is God speaking...lol. Man made stories are funny.

This destroys certain religious arguments against the use of other psychoactive herbs because they have "mind altering" effects. Religion itself is one big argument so what can they say.
What name would you give the state of mind required to mock the holy books of a people of faith on a forum designed for respectful reasoning on the subject?  Many approach religion for an argument, but many many more have a simple faith. 

I have observed that all levels of food(gastronomical, respiratorical, sense-impressional etc.) have an effect on the mind.  There is no unaltered mind.  It is much more difficult to define and obtain a state of mind that could be called "sober".  So much that "sober" may be a state of an altogether different mind than the one that is subject to constant alteration.  To me, this scripture is speaking to the proper ordering of the two minds so that the spiritual mind, with its basis in and orientation towards eternity is not caught up in that which cannot be eternally filling.

Solomon says "Into the sea all the rivers go, and yet the sea is never filled" (Ecclesiastes 1:7).  Incense made purely for bodily pleasure is an endless sea that ties a person to a nature that leads to nothingness since nature is not eternal.   It cuts one off from the people because it is an abdication of personhood in favor of a lower mode of being.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2008, 09:43:48 PM »

What name would you give the state of mind required to mock the holy books of a people of faith on a forum designed for respectful reasoning on the subject?  Many approach religion for an argument, but many many more have a simple faith. To the individual i give respect to what they choose to believe in so respect to you, to a "holy" book used to define God in such a repugnant way and make of it one who alienates a person for mixing natural spices and smelling it, this after 40 years of wandering in the desert and used as a backbone for war, genocide, and false teachings i flatly claim it to be nothing more than man made rules. Only one with a mind free of indoctrination and boundless by free will can see this.

Let me ask you with all due respect, faith or not, do you actually believe that God is a God that concerns itself with someone who happens to mix a few spices together and then burns it for it's smell and if this person were to do it this God would banish this person to live a life away from it's social upbringing for doing so, this is the God mind you who created the humpback whale down to the smallest atom and the expansive universe but treats it's greatest creation with contempt for stupid things such as that? or does this sound like men writing such things to hold sway over people and gain power over them at a time when the vast majority were illiterate and unknowing? Is this repugnant to reason and seem un moral to and human like or divine and Godly like, just because it is the bible doesnt mean all of it is good or perfect or moral teachings, one needs to be able to seperate the foolishness from the inspirational and discern what is clearly man made and written based upon our inate reason and ability to know right and wrong. Since when is murder, genocide, rape, killing of ones children, stoning, theft and war ok? when a page in a book claiming to be God says so? I respect that you and many others here are more sound and filled with moral understandings to understand what im trying to say, yes if the bible is completely Holy to you and everything in it is moral and exusable then i apologize for "mocking" your holy book and will refrain from doing so, but this is also a forum to reason and i dont see reason in such a statement, only fallible words from man. I respect the bible and a good number of it's teachings as good for people myself included but also understand it to be a book written by men no different from man today with all his bad traits along with the good ones, not the mind of God.

Religion borrows it's morality from us, not we from religion. This is innate in all of us.

If i have offended you, which it seems I have, i do apologize and was not meaning to harm you personally, it was directed to the whole of Religion.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2008, 10:23:26 PM »

What name would you give the state of mind required to mock the holy books of a people of faith on a forum designed for respectful reasoning on the subject? 

Tormented.
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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 08:41:19 AM »

So these scientists get together and somehow discover how to animate dirt.

"We don't need God anymore" says one.

"Look," says another. "I can take this handful of dirt and make it come to life."

Then God says "No. Make your own dirt."

Human, you do consistently mock.

God cares.

Bless up.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 10:37:59 AM »

God cares.

Thats the point, God as you see him only cares up to a point, then one wiff of the incense and your out. I mock the foolish writings of men of old. No one said we dont need God anymore, we dont need to understand him through foolish man made parables is the point. Some writings are great and explain things well, others are simply rubbish and clearly man speaking, if you cant or refuse to recognize that then so be it thats your right. This is a forum so deal with some who agree to disagree with others, I will respectfully try to not come across in a mocking way though, fair enough? I have not called anybody names or slandered them, I will leave that for a particular person here and peacefully post.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 04:37:46 PM »

 >>>>God as you see him only cares up to a point, then one wiff of the incense and your out."


This is something g-d has told I and I. Don't imagine that we would need to "see" him, and still believe, though some of us do. The point is that it is NOT your g-d. Look what you have done to an important reasoning because you feel such a way about the bible and Rastafari. Yes this is our faith, and we teach that it is no mans right to question. I&I sight G-ds Judgments as a sign of HIM caring than otherwise. I Iccept you, Just not here.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 04:44:59 PM by I ELIJAH I »
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 04:51:50 PM »

I understand, blind faith is an ironic gift to the creator of human intelligence then...I see. The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason and Rastas are no different when it comes to this is what you are saying(not I). Some teachings! your right, it is not my God, God to me can only be known through reason which i was endowed with and which i recognize to be innate in all. I will respect the site and those here by not posting anymore, I will come here at times to see the deep posts like "Is god black or white", "can a white person be rasta" or "Is it right to grow dreads for looks" and read them but will refrain from posting out of respect and i will eventually move on to much higher ground of reasoning. Take care all and thanks to those who i have communicated with on here and have become friends with, I truly respect and love all of you and wish nothing but love for all here, take care, sincerely Human.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 05:47:28 PM »

The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason and Rastas are no different when it comes to this is what you are saying(not I).


Rather to open another. No Faith is Blind. Though without it none truly see anything much less JAH. Happy Journey's!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 05:52:57 PM by I ELIJAH I »
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Nepsis

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2008, 06:04:26 PM »

To the individual i give respect to what they choose to believe in so respect to you, to a "holy" book used to define God in such a repugnant way and make of it one who alienates a person for mixing natural spices and smelling it, this after 40 years of wandering in the desert and used as a backbone for war, genocide, and false teachings i flatly claim it to be nothing more than man made rules. Only one with a mind free of indoctrination and boundless by free will can see this.

Let me ask you with all due respect, faith or not, do you actually believe that God is a God that concerns itself with someone who happens to mix a few spices together and then burns it for it's smell and if this person were to do it this God would banish this person to live a life away from it's social upbringing for doing so, this is the God mind you who created the humpback whale down to the smallest atom and the expansive universe but treats it's greatest creation with contempt for stupid things such as that? or does this sound like men writing such things to hold sway over people and gain power over them at a time when the vast majority were illiterate and unknowing? Is this repugnant to reason and seem un moral to and human like or divine and Godly like, just because it is the bible doesnt mean all of it is good or perfect or moral teachings, one needs to be able to seperate the foolishness from the inspirational and discern what is clearly man made and written based upon our inate reason and ability to know right and wrong. Since when is murder, genocide, rape, killing of ones children, stoning, theft and war ok? when a page in a book claiming to be God says so? I respect that you and many others here are more sound and filled with moral understandings to understand what im trying to say, yes if the bible is completely Holy to you and everything in it is moral and exusable then i apologize for "mocking" your holy book and will refrain from doing so, but this is also a forum to reason and i dont see reason in such a statement, only fallible words from man. I respect the bible and a good number of it's teachings as good for people myself included but also understand it to be a book written by men no different from man today with all his bad traits along with the good ones, not the mind of God.

Religion borrows it's morality from us, not we from religion. This is innate in all of us.

If i have offended you, which it seems I have, i do apologize and was not meaning to harm you personally, it was directed to the whole of Religion.
I already gave one interpretation that shows how the commandment is essentially to establish inner order.  One exoteric layer of this scripture is simply the consecration of this.  If one prefers only constant, base, self-bodily pleasure over setting aside time and material for knowing God, giving thanks and praises in the presence of the saints, then clearly the social cut-off was already self-willingly made on the psychological level.  If all one can do is sniff for self-pleasure, I don't want them sniffing around my daughters.  Free will is being able to do what one doesn't want to do, not just a license to only do what one wants to do.  Love will require a self-emptying.  This is the incarnation and cross of Christ - God's love manifested in self-emptying. 

There is no offense and no harm on my part, I'll just ignore the off-topic attempts to paint God as a Disney villain. 
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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 06:52:02 PM »

THIS POST IS IN PROGRESS- I KEEP LOSING MY REPLY, SO I POSTED AND AM MODIFYING. THANK-YOU. BLESS UP.


Human, please.

Because you do not overstand an issue does not make those who do and accept blind.

My faith is eyes-wide-open. I came here the hard way.

I was raised by an atheist and an agnostic. I used the Big Brain with which God blessed me to torment Believers and stand down Creationism. (Which is part of why I enjoy that joke so much. "Make your own dirt." Hahahahahaha!)

I used my MENSA level brain for evil. Instead of uplifting and helping my fellow women, I tormented them too.
I got good grades when I wanted to, screwed off completely when I didn't, slept, or rather didn't sleep, with whomever I pleased.
I did all the good Eugene, Oregon drugs, in abundance (not much herb though. "It slows me down. I can't think." As if I was thinking anything worthwhile.)

At some point in there before I was a Girl Gone Wild completely, I realized that I didn't need to prove God existed. I BELIEVED in God.




This is the Good News- You can mock until your dying breath and even beyond. Jesus will still be there for you.
Posted on: July 16, 2008, 07:08:16 pm
Well that didn't work.

Argh.

Human, this is the short version.

We get that you don't believe that Ible.


If you want to have productive reasoning at some point you have to accept things you don't believe for the sake of conversation.
It is what civilized people do.

Nepsis brought up a topic to discuss, and you jumped in with "The Bible is a pack of allegory and half-truth."

Well, DROP THAT and discuss the subject of the thread, eh?

Sorry to be so abrupt. I did have an eloquent answer, but it disappeared into cyber space.

Bless up!
Posted on: July 16, 2008, 07:35:12 pm
Nepsis, I agree completely that there is no unaltered mind. I used to try, so hard, to not allow anything alterative into my children.
It is beyond impossible.
Nothing is neutral.

That said...

My understanding is that Frankincense is opium???

My experience with opium has been that it makes me tempero-psychic. It makes me more aware of what is going on around me.
My lucid dreams are about what is going on in my life at that time instead of being prognostic and instead of being a dispersion of fears.

I become open to events that are occurring and that pertain to me.

Also, opium is a powerful tool to overthrow the influences of other alteratives.

OF COURSE God wants us to be our most receptive, open, and overstanding in His presence.
And OF COURSE recreational opium use is NOT GOOD.

One cannot equate over-use of a substance for personal reasons with use in a religious ceremony to help bring one closer to God.

I don't know about use of herb to promote reasoning.
It is definitely part of Rastafari and it definitely has a long and storied use both in and out of religious purposes.

I don't know what God wants on a personal day-to-day basis with Herb.

"It shall not make any for yourselves according to this composition.  It shall be to you a holy thing for the Lord.  Whoever makes any like it to smell it, he shall be cut off from his people."

This makes perfect sense to me.
OF COURSE God doesn't want people "huffing" daily.
We cannot be "open" all of the time.
Being open requires diligence and vigilance.

"Where two or three gather in my name..."

That's what I believe.

Interesting thread, Nepsis.

Thank-you.

It just brought me clarity.

Bless up!



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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 06:59:29 PM »

Copy before the post then paste if it times out.
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Nepsis

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2008, 08:04:32 PM »

Your welcome, although I don't think that Frankincense is an opiate, not to say that opium is not a valuable substance and without purpose to us.

St Basil, one of our most well-known orthodox saints says "There are even circumstances where poisons are useful to men; with mandrake doctors give us sleep; with opium they lull violent pain. Hemlock has ere now been used to appease the rage of unruly diseases; and many times hellebore has taken away long standing disease. These plants, then, instead of making you accuse the Creator, give you a new subject for gratitude."

Bredrin in the Indian Orthodox church who are familiar with Ayurvedic medicine recognize techniques of this art in some of the actions of Christ in the Gospels.  In fact, establishing Ayurvedic medical centers is one of the ministries of the ancient church in India long ago established by the Apostle Thomas.

Understanding our own body typology and its relationship to the many substances of creation is part of our blessed life.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 08:47:46 PM »

I agree Nepsis. I think the desire to cast frankincense as symbolizing opium may be an effort to discredit the sacramental use of cannabis which is specifically mentioned in Incient Hebrew texts.
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