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Author Topic: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship  (Read 22989 times)

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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 05:42:36 AM »

I don't remember the source for frankincense being opiate.
I wish I did.

I never had the impression is was to discredit anything.

While I do not wish to make opium sound in any way helpful outside of specific medical and possibly religious purposes, my most productive and hard-working years were those in which I smoked it regularly.

"Understanding our own body typology and its relationship to the many substances of creation is part of our blessed life."

I "have" fibromyalgia and deal with daily constricting pain.
While I "understand" that the cause is my own faulty relationship with God and my inability to divorce myself from the "unreality" of day-to-day life, I no longer fault myself here.

When I smoked opium, over a period of several years, I very seldom fell ill, never missed a day of work, exercised regularly and ate well, seldom falling prey to binge eating, and exercised regularly. But I didn't have Jesus.

I wouldn't trade back, but as I sit here wracked with too much pain to ride the horse I need to fit to sell (because- everything costs too much and I generally hurt to ride so why have a horse), I can't help but think..."If opium were free, legal, and grew on trees..."

I find it far more useful and enlightening for me than cannabis, but I am an exception that proves the rule in many ways.
It isn't something I could ever recommend in general. (Look at Amy Winehouse).

But right now I hurt...
and I'm tired of taking responsibility for my pain.
I'd really like to just not hurt for a while.

People take the gifts of God and turn them into crimes and perversions.
That may well be what I am doing.

I don't know what the rules are for alteratives.
I am pretty sure that in general I'm not supposed to hurt.

I know things grow that take away the pain, but it's against the law for me to grow them.

Bless up.

Posted on: July 17, 2008, 06:35:55 am
Where, Elijah I, specifically, is cannabis mentioned in Hebrew texts?

I understand that " the green man" is present in catholic art.
Rosslyn cathedral is a standout example.

I am interested in learning, however, of specific references?

Bless up.
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Oskar

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 09:52:17 AM »

I'm late for the reasoning but here is my input non the less.

Cut of from his people? I&I separated unto the Most High. Where 2 or 3 are gathered... telling me Geezus abandons a single I on a deserted island. Compassionate one, eh? Herb is for the use of man. Natural creation, not babylon invention.

Don't confuse criticism of the abuse of religion for criticism against the Almighty. I feel he is powerful enough not to get offended by what human says or thinks.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 04:27:40 PM »

Don't confuse criticism of the abuse of religion for criticism against the Almighty. I feel he is powerful enough not to get offended by what human says or thinks.

Well said and thank you Oskar, I would just add that it is the criticism of absurd writings claiming it to be Gods word. I will sum it up by using the writings of a Bishop named John Shelby Spong, a brave man who came to some clear conclusions of his own and i will post the link for this as well for others to see what I meen. This is not for everyone i understand, this is simply what i feel, thank you.

"Can any human definition ever exhaust the meaning of God? Are we not aware of the ancient bit of folk wisdom suggesting that "if horses had Gods they would look like Gods"? No creature can finally conceptualize beyond it's own limits or it's own being. A horse cannot think or imagine beyond the experience of a horse. Despite our human pretensions, that is also true of human beings. If human beings have gods they will look and act like human beings. None of us can ever get beyond that. If we are going to speak of God at all, we must begin by acknowledging that limitation. Even if we admit revelation as a source of Knowledge, that revelation will be received and understood within the limits of the human experience."   by Bishop John Shelby Spong
from his 1998 book Why Christianity Must Change or Die

This is exactly why the great ancient writers, who had many Gods for everything from the sun, moon, water, fire and so on never ever tried to name the ONE true God, the God of Gods if you will, they always said this ONE is unknowable, un fathomable, un nameable and this is giving the ultimate respect to that which we term GOD. So when I see parables or writings or such things that clearly have the stamp of humans on it trying to pretend it is God it makes me seriously question them, question them with reason, deep thought and clear conscious as to wether this is actually God or man writing these things and i have to be honest with myself as a human and say yes or no clearly this is or isn't, thats all. I hope some here can understand what I am saying and they themselves question such things in these times. As Oskar said dont confuse the difference, I believe deeply in the ONE, just not as it is given in many places in the bible, it is in the bible just not in many of it's writings, thats all.
Posted on: July 17, 2008, 01:11:52 pm
The above post should say "If horses had Gods they would look like horses".
Posted on: July 17, 2008, 04:45:52 pm
For those that may read the above quoted book i must say i personally agree with Mr Spong's first half of writing but not his second half which to anyone that may read it seems confusing.
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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 05:14:50 PM »


Cut of from his people? I&I separated unto the Most High. Where 2 or 3 are gathered... telling me Geezus abandons a single I on a deserted island.

I believe that this is why Yeshuah said, in Matthew 19:8, that Moses allowed us divorce because of the hardness of our hearts.


(Human, Jesus agrees with you. People wrote the laws.)

The Mosaic Law is written by Moses.
That doesn't mean it isn't the inspired word of God.
It means that the inspired word of God comes to us through a foggy cloud of human language as lain down by the hand of a man who is hearing it through his own overstanding, time, place, and other limitations.

God is limitless and so cannot be accurately written.

Whenever I read in the Ible something I do not like, I think of this. That it is written by men. We are like the blind men and the elephant. No one of us can EVER have a universal line on God.

JESUS is THE LAW.
JESUS said to love one another as He has loved us, that is the law and the prophets (Torah/the books of Moses and the Prophets/Ezekiel, Isaiah, Micah, and such).

Any time something comes up that seems wrong think about who wrote it and why.
And keep in mind that many of the narratives are historical records and thus do not reveal ideal behavior but human behavior.

human, as an avid horse-person, while I am familiar with that quote and have always enjoyed it, I submit that horses, too, would paint their gods as human precisely because they cannot think beyond their experience of being a horse. What separates people is that we can think beyond our personal experience (not that we often do).

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Xenophanes

It's Xenophanes. I was thinking it came from the Milesian school, but I'm not sure.

"The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpture like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each they would shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of their own."
 
Variant translations:
Yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of the gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds.
If cattle and horses or lions had hands, or were able to draw with their hands and do the work that men can do, horses would draw the forms of the gods like horses, and cattle like cattle, and they would make their bodies such as they each had themselves.



Posted on: July 17, 2008, 06:07:03 pm
Ah- so Oskar- I don't know if I was clear?

MOSES said that the people who make this incense for themselves and use it for personal reasons will be cut off.

Think about people who do use legitimate drugs this way.
Are they not cut off from their people, by their own actions and choice?
No-one has to cut them off. They generally find their own alley to crawl into and die.

But if we expand this to include what Nepsis brought up, that all food is alterative, then we can conclude safely (imo) that we must do EVERYTHING for the Lord Most High.

Seen?

Human, I pray we are rolling onto a more common ground from which to proceed in future reasonings.

Elijah I, I am heeding your advice and hitting that "copy" button every few sentences. No more lost posts.

Bless up all.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 06:24:16 PM »

Any time something comes up that seems wrong think about who wrote it and why.
And keep in mind that many of the narratives are historical records and thus do not reveal ideal behavior but human behavior.

This is my entire point (i disagree about the historical truth for some of it) and something I do, and i find the vast majority of it Human.

"It means that the inspired word of God comes to us through a foggy cloud of human language as lain down by the hand of a man who is hearing it through his own overstanding, time, place, and other limitations."
Again i agree accept who is to say it is the "inspired word of God" or God speaking at all and not just the persuading hand of man using the language for power of some sort. If someone thinks the entire bible and all the wording in it is Gods word or inspired Gods word, then there is no reasoning with that person because you have taken out "reason" and to me personally it is a very weak and unwilling attempt to "reason" about the sayings.

I understand the distinction between the timeless experience of God and the time-bound explanation of that experience, which is inevitably distorting to most, this form of archaic language is harming many these days, those who take certain literature literally and kill because of what it says exactly. If the stories are going to be spoken as a metaphor or metaphoricaly then many things must be changed and looked into when it comes to the teachings, on an individual level these understandings can be seen for what they are but on a much bigger level and the one i most assuredly speak about it is dangerous, the big level has billions of dollars to change school programs, sway political decisions and eradicate entire positive programs for the youth all based upon what is thought to be Gods word. If writings in the bible contradict each other from page to page then when is it that people stop and say, huh, is this really God, is this really God inspired, especially when it is repugnant to reason and moral teachings. When the bible says something like this (it does) "God is an angry God", God's anger has risen" and then a few chapters later the wisest man in history says "Anger resides in the bosom of a Fool" which is correct, do you blindly accept that it doesnt matter the contradiction (which is just one of dozens) because it's gods word or do you as a rational human being question what is going on here? there are many many things that are absurd and irrational and down right disturbing and offensive to a person of sound mind in the bible that warrants an answer, mainly from within which is when "reason" and ethical thought comes in to the picture and you must distinguish wether it is simple "It is fallible mans writings", or "Gods words or isnpirational thoughts". This is my point and what i try, albeit in the wrong manner at times i admit, i try to get across and "Reason" about. I do not mean to come across as pointing a finger or bashing the bible or looking like a God hater because that is what Iam am not about at all, I simply ask myself these deep questions and wish to talk with others about such things, no matter what you believe in it is your right and in no way could I or would I want to try to change that, I only want positive reasoning on such things, take care.

"Human, I pray we are rolling onto a more common ground from which to proceed in future reasonings."

Im with you on that completely and pray as well, it is all i have wanted on here from the beginning but because im Human i have at times fallen off track but thanks to some on here i do my best to move forward with positive thoughts and complete love for you all, and that means all of you.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 06:30:42 PM by Human »
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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2008, 08:36:13 PM »

I haven't found anything in the Ible to be not true.

I'm not going to argue the fine points- that isn't our purpose, is it?
I don't need to prove to you that the Ible is more true than you believe it to be nor you me that it is less true than I believe it to be.

I don't know that God is angry or not angry.
That is certainly how God is described.

Does God have emotions? Does God have human emotions?

I don't know. I wouldn't think so.

When God is described as angry or wrathful, isn't that a description of what God is doing?
In the same sense that love is a verb, that love is what you do, isn't anger also what you do?

Solomon is talking about anger as a self-defeating/eating/spiteful emotion in the human heart.
God is described as angry because of actions, things that are occurring, as the physical consequences of wrong action.
Two different angers.

We really need to go to the Hebrew on that, no?

Is God vengeful?
I don't believe so much so.
He is in complete control of all He wishes, so there is no need for Him to be vengeful.

We may see the consequences as God's vengeance, but I don't believe that God is that small.

What I believe, what works for me, is that God created the world and the rules He gives us aren't to line us out or keep us submissive but rather the rules are to make our lives better.

The consequences of violating these rules aren't, in my overstanding, the result of God taking direct punitive action but rather are the unavoidable repercussions of wrong action.

Something can well be inspired by God and yet be transmitted incorrectly in the sense that the meaning is misunderstood by the majority of readers and listeners.

This cannot be misunderstood, however.

LOVE one another as I have loved you.

If what you are reading in the Ible isn't reflective of that, then it is not written as well as it could be, seen?

Jesus IS the Law.
Jesus says the Law is simply this- Love the Lord God with ALL.
Love one another.

I see this when I read the Ible. Even the hairy scary parts. I didn't always.

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Oskar

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2008, 01:00:46 AM »

I believe that this is why Yeshuah said, in Matthew 19:8, that Moses allowed us divorce because of the hardness of our hearts.

Reading that verse I see Moses loved the people and allowed them even though they had a hardened heart. What does divorce have to do with any of this?
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2008, 01:37:45 AM »

Thank you Natty for your post, I know you have a good heart and by your writing a strong and beautiful spirit, whether it is from faith or not is not the point for me, it is simply beautiful and i thank you for sharing your thoughts, one love.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2008, 01:50:14 AM »

Jesus who "is" and "fulfilled" the law, believed it was "the writings of man"? Pure contradiction...
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natty threads

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2008, 02:05:08 AM »

Reading that verse I see Moses loved the people and allowed them even though they had a hardened heart. What does divorce have to do with any of this?


Not the divorce part, Oskar, but the "Moses allowed."

Human, thank-you.


Elijah I- I don't know how to address that- I'm sorry if it seems faithless to you.
It is a matter of embracing opposites.

Jesus did NOT say "God allowed you divorce" but "Moses allowed you divorce".

Bless up!
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Oskar

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2008, 06:48:28 AM »

Not the divorce part, Oskar, but the "Moses allowed."

Yes, I see. Unity with a hardened heart is not possible.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2008, 03:04:06 PM »

Not the divorce part, Oskar, but the "Moses allowed."

Human, thank-you.


Elijah I- I don't know how to address that- I'm sorry if it seems faithless to you.
It is a matter of embracing opposites.

Jesus did NOT say "God allowed you divorce" but "Moses allowed you divorce".

Bless up!

Yes I imagine for someone who saw Moses and Jesus as opposites it would be.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2008, 03:48:28 PM »

Yes I imagine for someone who saw Moses and Jesus as opposites it would be.

Without speaking metaphorically as usual, explain how they are NOT.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2008, 07:07:06 PM »

Rasta doesn't take bribes.
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Human

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Re: God commands we breath psychoactive smoke during temple worship
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2008, 07:20:56 PM »

Notice i offered no money!!!!  only a chance for you to explain without metaphors. I think Natty is entitled to an explanation along with others here, is that so difficult?
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