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Author Topic: The arguement between Religion and Atheism  (Read 3447 times)

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Human

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The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« on: September 13, 2008, 02:40:16 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaQpRZJl18&feature=related        part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkHuvErbpd0&feature=related

Watch the video, it is a very intellectual man named Christopher Hitchins, a devout atheist speaking on the Exoteric bible and religious values. This is what is being debated everywere these days in well know universities and elsewere and soon may be taught in certain ways in schools in the near future. Mr Hitchins is a well read man and extremely knowledgable in the EXOTERIC understanding of the bible and other books considered holy. I say EXOTERIC because he is not well versed in the ESOTERIC teachings that underlie the books, the truth hidden by a thick veil of allegory in the teachings handed down by mankind since it's dawn. If you dont understand the esoteric, look behind the veil of what is written you are faced with a large part of society and growing extremely fast who see it just like Mr Hitchins and rightfuly so! rightfuly so because what he says is true and reasonable when you simply take the stories literaly as many do without researching what is being refered to and stick to listening to others or priests or rabbis who wont tell you differently. The bible, purans, vedas, gita, kemtic writings, Kaballah all are written to show those who look deep within, the story of nature, life, involution and evolution, cyclic nature, laws governing the universe, humanitys divinity, the make up of nature, etc, etc. Only when read esotericaly and all are placed side by side for reference and symbolical communion will you be able to see the wholeness of what is being said, not one of them has the total truth, but all have a piece of it becasue it is a universal teaching that dates from mans birth, this divine wisdom teaching was once universal and can be seen in the great structures and there similaritys around the world and in the writings of the worlds cultures although seperated by vast distances and waters. These great writings go hand in hand with what has been dubbed the "new science" quantum physics. It is quantum physics and scientists who are catching up to the ancient writers not the other way around, this is profound and has incredible ramifications for all who open there inner eye to see what is being said in both science and occult teachings, occult means hidden thats all and the books all have a hidden meaning and teaching below the surface, this is what is meant by esoteric and what is meant when jesus said " to you i give pearls and to the peole i give parrables" and other such sayings. We no longer can afford to take the stories and allegories and reduce everything down to God or Devil, we throw away everything the ancients strived for in these writings by doing so, they were not fools and men writing about whores and whoredom and war and genocide, they were writing about the same discoveries that science in the field of Quantum mechanics is discovering "thousands of years later"!!!!! this is how deep the writings actually go,but if we choose to only go at face value, dead letter , literal understanding we will be weak against people who have a right to see it in this manner like Mr Hitchens and others. It is up to us to help combat this wrong way of seeing the great books by having an open mind and not being afraid to look deeper for fear of being called names or pagan or heathen or other foolish terms, you help the Hitchensons of the world when you do this. I write this to bring a deeper sense of reasoning to this board not to step on anyone or discredit them but to open up questions and reasonings about such videos and debates that are going on around us. I encourage anyone to check there local universities and go to a debate like this video was taken from and see were you may stand with your understanding of the great books and reason. Thanks all for listening.

 'The esoteric doctrine is the common property of mankind, and it has always been thus. In all the various great religions and philosophies of the world, the student will find fundamental principles in each which, when placed side by side and critically examined, are easily discovered to be identic ..., but usually expressed in exoteric form.
    'However, no one of these world religions or world philosophies gives in clear and explicit shape or form the entirety of the body of teachings which are at its heart; some religions emphasize one or more of such fundamental principles; another religion or philosophy will emphasize others of these principles; in either case others again of the principles remaining in the background. This readily accounts for the fact that the various world religions and world philosophies vary among themselves and often, to the unreflecting mind, superficially seem to have little in common, and perhaps even to be contradictory. The cause of this is the varying manner in which each such religion or philosophy has been given to the world, the form that each took having been best for the period in which it was promulgated. Each such religion or philosophy, having its own racial sphere and period of time, represents the various human minds who have developed it ...
    'These manners or mannerisms of exoteric thinking we may discard if we wish; but it is the fundamental principles behind every great religion or great philosophy which in their aggregate are the universal esoteric doctrine. In this universal esoteric doctrine lies the mystery-field of each great religion or philosophy ...
    'Exotericism -- that is to say, the outward and popular formulation of religious and philosophic doctrines -- reveils the truth; the self-assurance of ignorance, alas, always reviles the truth; whereas esotericism reveals the truth.'
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 02:52:38 AM by Human »
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 03:29:07 AM »

they were not...men writing about whores and whoredom and war and genocide, they were writing about the same discoveries that science in the field of Quantum mechanics is discovering "thousands of years later"

Same thing.
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surfmon_I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 01:29:18 PM »

Greetings Brethren,
  "same thing"~not to all people.  Not all people have the same overstanding from writings, especially when it was written in a different age and culture.  One must place themselves in the context of the times, and even then , as you both know, not all people have the keys to unlock the door of knowledge.  I , not being a big reader till recent years, find it amazing that ones can be so presumptious about what is truth. 
  I can see that the refrence to Whoredom comes from a post on a thread by Bred. GrowStrong, and it is a good example between exo/eso~ teric. 
  It is true that ones who seek with desperation and want, take longer to see the truth and resolution versus those that do so with Humility and openess.  It just seem to work out that way.  To look at something face value is only to see one Dimension, and we sholud open ourselves to the facts of hidden truths, Deeper Truths that affect us all.
 
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 02:30:22 PM »

Yes people from "outside the culture" try placing themselves in "the context of the times" because they are incapable of realizing that now is the same time. The dimensions of face value depend on the face. I find peoples presumptions rather disgusting.
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Human

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2008, 03:27:22 PM »

  "The dimensions of face value depend on the face"

Yes, it depends on an understanding of what they are reading from a worldly perspective, not simply aJewishh orMuslimm orHinduu or christian one, to try to understand the meaning from only one source, usually the religion you were BORN into or happened to be RAISED into because of were you live is not essential to the complete picture of the meaning. You wind up saying my god says this, my book is better and the truth,  no mine is, no your wrong over here is the truth. The books all have ONE actor so to speak with many MASKS because of distance, culture, time, language etc, etc. This wisdom-teaching is mans great gift, not one particular tribe or race or designation on the map but ALL MANKINDS great teachings to benefit from. This is why it is important to be able to reason about the many collaborations in the books and also the slight differences which usually turn out to be the same when understood in the "context of the times". Yes your right on the part of "now is the same times" Elijah, so lets start putting examples side by side to show this, ancient next to modern writings to explain the deep understanding being talked about then and now, nothing has changed except a continued denial of there esoteric unity based upon only an exoteric rendering.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2008, 07:46:04 PM »

Even within what unity of religion exists, there is a hierarchy of revelatory truth in relation to the absolute that justifies scriptural distinction's being made to accurately Reprasent the Glory of the Most High. 
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Human

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 09:29:43 PM »

I believe your saying there are accurate distinctions or exoteric parts that accurately represent God? is this correct? or are you saying there is a better truth in certain books or a book that represents God correctly above another?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 09:36:59 PM by Human »
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 11:09:04 PM »

I'm saying that the one scriptural revelation which fully represents the exo and esoteric reality of Almighty g-d is above all others, and attempts to dismiss the significance of either realm is weakhearted filthiness.
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surfmon_I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 12:23:30 AM »

what would be that one scriptural revelation? , and ,who may I ask, has attempted to dismiss the significance of either realm?.
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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 01:09:19 AM »

what would be that one scriptural revelation?

The one scripture that reveals JAH HIMself is the Bible as declared by His Majesty.

Quote
who may I ask, has attempted to dismiss the significance of either realm?

Duppies, Who else? How could ones blood be purely esoteric?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 01:18:27 AM by I ELIJAH I »
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Human

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2008, 02:29:52 AM »

"attempts to dismiss the significance of either realm is weakhearted filthiness."   What is the significance of Abraham hearing a voice in his head to sacrifice his son like a lamb, what is the significance of of him letting Egyptians sexually molesting his wife Sarah for safe passage, what is the significance of God turning lot's wife into a pillar of salt because she looked at the fireworks of Sodom, this after her daughters were raped instead of the messengers and it was ok in Gods eyes, what is the significance of such writings unless they mean something much different than what is on the surface????  The only significance and real reason why such stories are the way they are is to conceal a deeper truth, the hebrews knew there writings would be looked at with horror if taken on the surface, they did not want nor allow the common people to understand the true meanings, no initiate was allowed to speak of what they knew, this was a law unto them. Without showing the people the esoteric meaning of the stories the exoteric is useless and immoral and is easily attack by reason as being so, WITH knowledge of the esoteric meaning the EXOTERIC stories fall in to place and become clearer and stripped of the negative look to them. Again there is not one book that has the entire truth within, but, all have a piece of the truth within and together they tell a grander story. Color, race, time, space, gender etc, etc are all illusions on this plane so to say my book over here has the truth or no my people over here have the one truth is nothing more than a lack of knowledge and really just based on Ego, thats all.

As far as the bible being the one true book as you say it is only ONE of the books which make up a part of the whole, it is actually the one which has been plagiarized and distorted, re-written, falsified and other such things throughout the years by wicked institutions, Just because Selassie kissed his does not make it the ONE, you can believe this because you think he is God and that is fine but still does not erase the fact.

"The one scripture that reveals JAH HIMself is the Bible as declared by His Majesty."   A perfect example of the one sided mentality, I dont think you even know what esoteric means after you say something like this Elijah. If you truly understand the the books you quickly realize they all say the same thing!!!!

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I ELIJAH I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2008, 03:34:28 AM »

These Idea's come from without the Rastafarian Faith and are presented as jealous and hopeless aggression towards it for vanity.
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Oskar

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2008, 08:20:05 AM »

There is no argument. Religion is faith and so is atheism.

Me personally I see God as the source of all wisdom and what is good. Saying that the source of wisdom and goodness don't exist make no sense to me and thus I know what I believe.
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surfmon_I

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2008, 12:32:04 PM »

Listening to this man, Christopher Hitchens, who is certainly articulate in his view and reasoning and also taking into account the members presently engaged in this topic, I wonder to what means this works.
  What is brought forth as Oskar has stated, No argument.  Shocking as it sounds to have ones point out that we must look at multiple sources and reality and reason when all the while faith trumps all.  The reasoning behind Faith is our attempt to live a Fruitful, Peaceful life.  We have yet, as a society, been able to do that.  Yes, Science looks at and exposes things thought of differently before, and somehow this is in relation to Miracles .
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 12:43:10 PM by surfmon_I »
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Human

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Re: The arguement between Religion and Atheism
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2008, 02:29:32 PM »

"Religion is faith and so is atheism."  Good point Oskar, it's true atheism is a faith that there is no God. There may be no argument in your eyes or mine as well I admit, but for many a youth there is this type of bickering going on, there is serious talk of putting creationism in to schools and teaching it and other talks of putting atheism in schools and teaching that. To some this may not be a serious or even worthy look but it can affect the youth in different ways if it is finally a school subject, this is why i use the word argument. I also agree with what you said that "I see God as the source of all Good and wisdom and saying it doesnt exist makes no sense" but the sad part of it when they say that is they are backed by billion dollar institutions and scientific groups, this can lead to many important discoveries being swept under the table and not shown to the public because it may discredit this faith of atheism, this is called "knowledge filtration" and it has already been done to a huge extent in the field of archeology because science has a timeline for man at only roughly 200,000 years or so and bones and other items have been found millions of years ago, hope you see what i mean by this post.  My point in posting all this is to bring awareness of these talks going around and spark a deeper conversation here as to what is meant by the writings in all books, on the surface and especially in between the words.
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