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Author Topic: flesh eating  (Read 14339 times)

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Kama_Sutra

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2005, 07:57:40 PM »

Voodoo...  Don't trees have souls?  Plants?  Anything that lives and grows and breathes?

Hey, since your name is Voodoo, I'm going to bring up a subject I want to discuss but I'm unable to create a new topic coz I'm still a newbie.

In summary, when africans were brought to the West Indies, as they are now called, as slaves, they were generally seen to be participation in rituals relating to their native beliefs, which were all deemed "voodoo" by the whites, for lack of more detailed information.  The christian whites saw them using idols, imagery, etc, doing various dances and chanting various chants.  This was seen as "primitive" and "evil" no doubt, and thus over time, the whites sought to turn these Africans onto Christianity.  As old dogs don't die easily, the Africans incorporated many of their "voodoo" customs into their new Christianity.  Anyway, this is all just a summary, but my question is, how do Rastas view the pre-Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic religions/customs/beliefs of African tribals?  Are they viewed as "heathen"?  Medicine men/women of Africa have always propitiated  various deities/spirits of the jungle/forest/herbs/plants to aid them in their healing, or rather give them power to heal.  This is an indication of strong polytheistic roots, as opposed to monotheistic.  

One could argue that this is the original/root culture of Africa and that Abrahamic beliefs in ONE GOD - Allah, Jah, Jehova, came later and were superimposed upon the tribals.

Anyway, the bottom-line.... are these people considered "heathens" or "evil idolators", and the like such terms that one reads in the Torah, Bible and Koran?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 08:12:32 PM by Kama_Sutra »
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DEVIN

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2005, 08:05:19 PM »

Quote
Devin -

The no meat-eggs-fish-milk-processed foods sounds like pretty orthodox Rasta livity, though I've heard some occasionally will eat fish and some occasionally organic eggs.

The rest also sounds orthodox except for the no divorce & remarraige. I've heard of some rather troubled situations where 'no remarriage' would truly inhabit the innocent.

Just spreading a little KNOWledge where I can, seen.

One love


im not dissagreeing with it, in fact i aggree im just saying i never heard of it being a "law"
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M-Dub

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2005, 08:05:38 PM »

Quote
Don't trees have souls?  Plants?  Anything that lives and grows and breathes?


Not necessarily. In the context of a human soul or the soul of an animal, no. Besides, plants don't really "breathe".

Kama there is a reason you are not able to start topics yet. Be patient. This is a good topic that shouldn't be changed. No disraspect.

One

Jah bless
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Kama_Sutra

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2005, 08:23:59 PM »

OK, got no prob with not being able to start a new topic, but a moderator can maybe post the following to another, new thread for me since it is off topic.  I added some more to the bottom but was not able to edit my above post coz I thought "reset" meant to repost with additions/corrections, so I'm copying and pasting here with the added end.

Hey, since your name is Voodoo, I'm going to bring up a subject I want to discuss but I'm unable to create a new topic coz I'm still a newbie.

In summary, when africans were brought to the West Indies, as they are now called, as slaves, they were generally seen to be participation in rituals relating to their native beliefs, which were all deemed "voodoo" by the whites, for lack of more detailed information.  The christian whites saw them using idols, imagery, etc, doing various dances and chanting various chants.  This was seen as "primitive" and "evil" no doubt, and thus over time, the whites sought to turn these Africans onto Christianity.  As old dogs don't die easily, the Africans incorporated many of their "voodoo" customs into their new Christianity.  Anyway, this is all just a summary, but my question is, how do Rastas view the pre-Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic religions/customs/beliefs of African tribals?  Are they viewed as "heathen"?  Medicine men/women of Africa have always propitiated  various deities/spirits of the jungle/forest/herbs/plants to aid them in their healing, or rather give them power to heal.  This is an indication of strong polytheistic roots, as opposed to monotheistic.  

One could argue that this is the original/root culture of Africa and that Abrahamic beliefs in ONE GOD - Allah, Jah, Jehova, came later and were superimposed upon the tribals.

Anyway, the bottom-line.... are these people considered "heathens" or "evil idolators", and the like such terms that one reads in the Torah, Bible and Koran?

Some years ago on TV I viewed something ironic.  A Muslim-American-Black man was giving a speech outside the White House, I think, about how the White Man obliterated African culture.  Hmmmmmmmm.  Original African culture was Islamic?  Anyway, I listened.  And I asked.  Why is this black man wearing Arabian style clothes?  Why does he have an Arabian name?  Has he ever studied the history of Islam in Africa?  How did Islam come to Africa?  How did the Arab/Muslims treat the native Africans?  How did they view their pre-Abrahamic, non-Abrahamic, non-monotheistic, polytheistic, tribal religions?  What did they think when they saw tribal women going topless compared to their very covered Muslims women?  What did they think of all the native dancing and singing (we know Islam is not famous for either).    You can understand my point.  But still, the White Man obliterated African culture and demeaned it, not Arab Muslims!  Oh of course not!  

Getting back to roots - could mean getting back to pre-Abrahamic, pre-monotheistic, religions.  
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Kama_Sutra

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2005, 02:28:42 AM »

Well, like, in Native American Indian belief systems (there were more than one but for the sake of the conversation, we're generalizing), although the Indians saw divinity behind natural phenomena like mountains, sun, moon, etc., and although various spirits or deities were attributed to them, still there was a ONE GREAT SPIRT that was thought to be behind everything.  Now contrast this with what I have experienced of Judaism and Islam (and to some extent Christianity), wherein it is seen as being against one of the ten commandments to attribute divine, or more powerful spirits/deities to natural phenomena, the commandment to not have any other Gods before "God", and also there is a commandment regarding "graven images".

Many native african cultures use graven images.  Although these images may be for lesser deities and spirits, still they are used.  In India the Hindus also use graven images, as well as many Buddhists and Jains and various other religions of the East.  At the same time the Hindus understand that there is ONE GREAT UNIFYING FORCE behind everything, but that there are also, I guess, semi-gods and goddesses that are in charge of various aspects of life such as say, wind, rain, knowledge, good luck, etc.  

Personally I find the extreme monotheism of Islam and Judaism to be over-bearing in it's non-acceptance and non-understanding of the way Divinity plays itself out in various cultures around the world, many that predate the oldest of the Abrahamic religions - Judaism.

Christian missionaries are especially famous for going into eastern cultures to "convert and civilize the natives", and many preachers show no respect at all towards indigenous belief systems, rather they mock them.  

Nowadays we are seeing a resurgence of many ancient beliefs as people are standing up and saying, hey, is the Abrahamic way the only way?  And thus a re-newed interest is shown in Native American Indian beliefs, tribal African, old European (good) witchcraft and paganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Zorastrianism, etc.  There is also a resurrgence in the focus on the feminine side of Divinity as in goddess worship as well as a focus on the feminine root names of Allah/Jah/Jehova which are found in the Torah (Old Testament) and Koran.

I just wondered if Rastafarai is as radical as traditional/fundamentalist Jews, Muslims and Christians when it comes to all this?  By radical I mean using terms like "kafirs", "heathens", "evil idolators", etc, to define persons who do not fit into their monotheistic paradigm.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 02:39:21 AM by Kama_Sutra »
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M-Dub

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2005, 02:25:58 PM »

Quote
I just wondered if Rastafarai is as radical as traditional/fundamentalist Jews, Muslims and Christians when it comes to all this?  By radical I mean using terms like "kafirs", "heathens", "evil idolators", etc, to define persons who do not fit into their monotheistic paradigm.


I have never heard of nor read the words of a Ras that said anything such as this. However, one must overstand that the Ible does state that those who have not read the Ible cannot be expected to follow its teaching. At the same time, it states that those who are aware of these teachings yet choose to ignore them shall be damned.

One

Jah bless
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Kama_Sutra

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2005, 11:44:45 PM »

Can a moderator/administrator please split this post from here and give it a section all it's own?

CALABASH

I need to know about the calabash fruit/veg.

On the internet everything says the calabash is gourd, that grows on a vine.

However, my friend from the West Indies says that it is not gourd, but in the family of gourd, and it grows on a tree.

If anyone can clarify this for me then please do so.

I would especially like to hear from people who are living in areas where the calabash grows and is used.

I need to know the medicinal properties of the calabash, as well as any ritualistic/spiritual value it may have in West Indian culture or Rasta culture.

Much obliged to anyone who can help me!

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SmG

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2005, 03:18:08 PM »

gourd?
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Rob

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2005, 05:00:17 AM »

Some meats contain protiens essential to our bodies that herbs, vegetables, fruits, ect. Do not give us or are not in our societies to eat.
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SmG

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2005, 09:02:44 AM »

Umm... Meat is NOT needed to survive - therefore we don't need to eat it. In old times (waay back) people did nah eat meat - and survived.

Jah Love
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Ash-Tree

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2005, 09:06:32 AM »

i agree meat isnt always needed to survive but say the rains dont come one time and all your crops fail then you have no choice. depending what climate you live in

jah love Ashley
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SmG

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2005, 09:08:00 AM »

That is true. When you have no choice then you dont.

Jah Love
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Oo.oO

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2005, 04:07:01 PM »

Does this make no sense to you? Let it be the end of the matter!

Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"

Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

Peace
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 04:08:55 PM by Oo.oO »
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M-Dub

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2005, 04:43:07 PM »

Quote
Some meats contain protiens essential to our bodies that herbs, vegetables, fruits, ect. Do not give us or are not in our societies to eat.


Actually this is completely false. I find it amusing that many flesh eaters will use this argument while not having any idea of what these "proteins" or "minerals" actually are and why they are essential. If you do your research you will find that this is a lie spread by flesh farmers for years.

Oo.oO - I believe you missed the point with your quotes.

One

Jah bless
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Ash-Tree

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Re: flesh eating
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2005, 07:02:46 PM »

yes m-dub totaly agree
plants provide all and always have done.if you worried about fish oil, hemp oil is beter.
jah love Ashley
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